33a Simca-Cargo fourgon + 33an Déménageur Simca Cargo

Unfortunately this nice single Simca Cargo is the only French van comparable with its British contemporaries like the multi- liveried Guy vans. It might have produced a comparable range of very attractive and collectable liveries. Two basic versions with slightly different catalogue numbers were available, firstly the plain one, no. 33a, with a dark olive cab and yellow back (subsequently the lighter olive cab and orange back) of 1955-1956 and the attractive all yellow one, no. 33an, with white roof and advertising Bailly removals of 1956-1961.Now my questions below are about the boxes of these vans, as they seem to have been mixed frequently in practice. This is the first version. 33a with yellow back, but contrary to Ramsays (11th, p. 235) not in box with yellow back model, but model shown with orange back. This is the second 33a version with orange back, and in the box expected, correct number and correct colour. Both boxes have the name printed: Fourgon Simca Cargo. Now I have got this second version 33a, but in a 33an box, so, the box for the removals van, the Dmnageur Simca Cargo. But it has a yellow back and no adverstising, whereas the only 33an known is the all yellow one with Bailly advertising. So both the number and model shown are wrong. Thierry Redempt (in his Utilitaires Dinky Toys & Dinky Supertoys, Toulouse: Drivers, 2003. p. 137) shows a comparable anomaly: the first version with yellow back, but also in the later 33AN box, now with the right model picture, but with the new name Dmnageur Simca Cargo. In fact I see many or all genuine Bailly vans come in this advertising-less box. The Bailly which I showed above is an old childhood favourite of my brother, and we do not remember in which box it came.My questions are: 1. Does a 33A box Fourgon Simca Cargo with yellow back model picture really exist? 2. It does not seem very unusual to me that the early plain vans come in the wrong 33AN Dmnageur Simca Cargo box. Apparently the factory simply ran out of the old boxes and packed the later batch of plain models in the new 33AN boxes. Do others of you have the same experience? 3. What happened later with the packing of the real 33AN Bailly van? Was a new box version with the correct all yellow model with advertising picture on it produced? And what happened with the box after the 1959 renumbering into 577?By the way, as an extra: There are two basic casting differences for all versions of 33a and 33an (shown above). Look for the differences. They seem to have existed next to each other for all the production period. The hook, and its casting adaptation, appeared on the Bailly only, in a later production stage. Kind regards, Jan Werner

Dear Jan, 3 years later (I just read that topic !)some answers and informations : 1) Yes, it exist a box showing a Simca Cargo with a yellow back. 2) The 'Bailly' never recieved its own box. Always packed in the box numbered '33 AN' 3) The box with '577' was never produced. Here under, you will see 2 'Bailly' base plate showing the two casting differences + another one : the safety wheel fixations ! One is screwed and the other is riveted. Also, the top of the back can be very 'white' or 'cream white' Cheers

As you may remember, I fortunately managed to find the correct, matching 33A box not much later. So I could then help my boxless Bailly (in fact my brother's) with the formerly incorrect 33AN box, which indeed matches the Bailly as it should! Kind regards, Jan

I have both of these, but am out of the house this week, watching our 3 granddaughters at their house, while mom and dad are in Hawaii. When I get home I will check on just what I have in both models and boxes..........Terry

Wonderful models, I only have the green / orange as I have very few French models, it really is a pity there weren't more variations. Chris Warr.

As usual with most Dinky Toys there are several variations. The pilot lot models or were they colour sample had yellow chassis-cab and hubs and green box van as shown on the 35mm Meccano advertissement films played in the cinemas around 1955. The boxes were : 33a with yellow box van 33a with orange box van 33an with yellow box van Is there a 33a box without drawings ? The trade box (called an outer by Meccano) for three models of the Bailly is printed 33AN and the later ones have been marked 577 by a red rubber stamp. I have not yet seen a 33a outer. On the yellow vans only (not on the orange), the rear door handles are bent down like on the Guy vans. There were two different dies (unlikely a two cavities die) used during all the production period for all the different Cargo models : tipper, glazier. The position of the marking and the cab' foot steps are different for each die. The pilot lot models were marked CARGO only without the SIMCA name. Meccano knew that there were talks between Ford s.a.f. designer and manufacturer of the Cargo and SIMCA to merge the two companies and waited until the deal was completed to add the new manufacturers name. The catalogue of 1954 announced the Cargo as a Ford truck but it was issued as a Simca in April 1955 ? All the real Simca Cargo trucks had twin rear wheels but Meccano saved some money by fitting single wheels. From late in 1956, the spare wheel boss has been raised when the tow hook was added. Copies of the 33AN Bailly and 33c Glazier lorry have already been issued by Atlas, one can bet that the 33b tipper and 33a yellow van are not far away.

Dear jacques. There is a third difference between the two dies : the front badge under the windscreen. One small and one bigger as you can see on the following photo. The next photo is to show the difference between two white shade. At last, I have two Simca with orange vans and the rear doors handles are bent down ! I don't know if I will succeed making a photo, but I will try. Cheers

Yes Richard but this is not obvious. I am sure that if we took accurate measurements we would find more differences between the two castings.

When you compare both badges, there is really a difference in the sizes. For the handles I hope that the photo is good enough.

Greetings Jan It is amazing how one can occupy a wet afternoon! Just found your 'ancient' Post, and thought I would throw open the discussion again! The photographs below are of my33a Simca-Cargo and 33an Simca Cargo. Both models were purchased from an auction house in Melbourne, Australia. You will note the similarities with your models, however, my 33A has a yellow back. Both models do not have a tail hook. Also of interest, the 33AN does not have a foot insert in front of the mudguard, but rather it has some sort of filler. Of course, it is always possible the auctioneer has mixed up the models and boxes! Kind regards Bruce (150) 20160602/928/1702

Hello Bruce, very nice examples of this van you show. The yellow back is less common than the orange one in my opinion. But both are 33A. 33AN only goes for the Bailly Van (even though the 33AN box still shows a plain one). I presume with such beautiful models that the boxes were not mixed up lateron, but in the factory already - dependent on the shortage or abundance of correct stock of boxes available. That may also go for your 150 Rolls Royce in the 551 box. Below you will see an example of the French Muir Hill, no. 887. Everything points at a long time belonging to each other. Probably the French factory was short of stock of French 887 boxes and got hold of a batch of English boxes to be able to pack and distribute them. Of course this is an anomaly, but explicable and a nice evidence of how things went at Meccano's. Kind regards Jan