660 Thornycroft mighty Antar Tank Transporter (195664)

Hello everybody, just some additional information about my two models in yellow-lidded boxes: 1 Both models ('Dinky Toys' and 'Dinky Supertoys' castings) are fitted with drivers, and both carry the red & yellow Royal Armoured Corps insignia. 2 As requested by Bruce, here is a photo of the lid stamp of the 'Dinky Toys' model: You are right Bruce, that quite often the inspection stamp lettering became mixed up, double-stamped, only partly visible etc. but in this case it is very clear for August 1956 - well done Mrs. H M! 3 Also a photo of the 'Supertoys' lid stamp dating to July 1956: but in this case, although quite legible, the '7' is fainter, and although I'm not sure, it doesn't seem that there was a letter after the numbers where the ink marks are. 4 I have just realised that on the lid with the text in a red panel , this is not printed directly onto the lid cover paper, but is a sticker which has been adhered over the original text - so confirming that it is a modification to the original lid print. As for cataloguers, well - we have all met people who think they know best despite evidence to the contrary, pity one of them works for Vectis! Regretfully I never received any military Dinky models as presents, so never had the fun of 'playing soldiers' - but still enjoy getting my Dinkies out of the cabinets or drawers for a bit of old-fashioned playtime. Like Terry, I was taught to look after my toys by my parents who supervised my playtime (all wheels firmly on the ground and no crashing, or the toys would be confiscated!) and each car was returned to it's box after each play session. As I grew up they learned to trust me, but the lessons had been well-learned! Regards to all, Adrian.

Having trouble uploading the picture of the driverless Antar. Trying again To Bruce: The date stamp in both the boxes is 5/56 (below) Ron.

Here is the announcement in the Meccano Magazine for the 660 Antar from June 1956. As can be seen from the text it stated that it had a driver fitted right from the initial launch. The one that Ron shows above is the first one I have ever seen without a driver. My reaction is that this is a factory error and it had driven quietly passed quality control - not an easy thing for a vehicle with an 18 litre petrol engine!!!!! Dave

I am not sure to understand well. Adrians's Dinky Toys was made in August 1956 His Supertoys was made in July 1956 The very rare Dinky Toys was issued first. Did Adrian mix his boxes ? If not it would mean that there were two dies for the semi-trailer which I doubt very much. I agree with David, the Driver less Antar, probably a Dinky Toys must be a mistake. The driver + driver bracket were a sub assembly, so if there is no driver, there can not be a bracket. There is an other mystery, why was the marque Supertoys not used from May 1951 until January 1955 ? Why the Antar issued in 1956 was a Dinky Toys and not a Supertoys. The 642 Pressure refueller die was also certainly made as a Dinky and changed to Supertoys before the first castings vere made or between the pilot lot and the production models ?

It was my understanding that the 'Dinky Toys' Antar was only made in May 1956 and that they very quickly were changed to 'Supertoys' in June or July. Looking at the MM announcement it was always intended as a Supertoy. Why the Supertoys name disappeared and the reappeared is strange, the Dinky catalogues of the period also reflected this change. Ron I have attempted a close-up to show the Antar driver mounting The rivet retaining the bracket cannot be seen as it is under the details of the winch behind the driver's cab. I suspect your driverless Antar does not have a bracket. I agree totally with Jacques that Dinky drivers were stored as sub-assemblies attached to their mounting brackets. Here is one from a 688 Field Artillery Tractor I picked up from e-bay some years ago: Dave

Hello everybody, Jacques - just to confirm some of the information from my earlier post: my Transporter marked 'Dinky Toys' in the yellow-lidded box with date stamp 'H M 856' was only bought two months ago from a UK seller, so it is possible that the box is not the one the model was originally packed in, although I checked with the seller and he told me he has had it for a couple of years and the model and box were together when he bought it. However, the other model I pictured, marked 'Supertoys' in a yellow-lidded box with date stamp '7 56', I have owned for around twenty years, and I believe was unsold shop stock - it is complete with all three packing pieces, and everything is in perfect original condition. I certainly have not mixed the boxes up! I have three other Transporters: 1 Base marked 'Supertoys', in a striped box, with 'Dinky Supertoys' in upright capitals, box date stamp 'Z E1256' so December 1956, complete with all packing pieces, 'LF' sticker on one lid end. 2 Base marked 'Supertoys', in 698 Gift Set box, 'Dinky Supertoys' in upright capitals, box date stamp 'Y P 859' so August 1959, with 651 Tank and all packing pieces. 3 Base marked 'Supertoys', with windows and detachable trailer, striped box with 'Dinky Supertoys' in italic capitals, with all packing pieces, but no price marked on the box, and no date stamp inside the lid, as is common with very late production 1963-4 models. All these examples are fitted with drivers in the Antar cab, including the detachable-trailer model - I agree with Dave and Jacques that this model was always intended to have a driver and bracket fitted, and any that missed out were production errors. There are several examples of yellow-lidded Transporters for sale on eBay at present, but only one is an early production 'Dinky Toys' version, fitted with a driver, and in a box date-stamped 'A R 556' (I have checked with the seller, to save you the trouble, Bruce!) but he wants 225 for it! Hope this clarifies things for you Jacques. Regards, Adrian.

The conclusion may be that around the middle of 1956 - in a few months' time - for this model changes took place in the casting (Dinky Toys Dinky Supertoys), box (yellow lid blue striped lid) and transfers (yellow-red yellow-blue). In such a transitional period I think it's no wonder that batches crossed in the factory and that seemingly illogical or chronological unexpected combinations of these features occurred easily. Always hard to prove! Kind regards, Jan

55Zephyr wrote: 'Hello everybody, Jacques - just to confirm some of the information from my earlier post: my Transporter marked 'Dinky Toys' in the yellow-lidded box with date stamp 'H M 856' was only bought two months ago from a UK seller, so it is possible that the box is not the one the model was originally packed in, although I checked with the seller and he told me he has had it for a couple of years and the model and box were together when he bought it. However, the other model I pictured, marked 'Supertoys' in a yellow-lidded box with date stamp '7 56', I have owned for around twenty years, and I believe was unsold shop stock - it is complete with all three packing pieces, and everything is in perfect original condition. I certainly have not mixed the boxes up! I have three other Transporters: 1 Base marked 'Supertoys', in a striped box, with 'Dinky Supertoys' in upright capitals, box date stamp 'Z E1256' so December 1956, complete with all packing pieces, 'LF' sticker on one lid end. 2 Base marked 'Supertoys', in 698 Gift Set box, 'Dinky Supertoys' in upright capitals, box date stamp 'Y P 859' so August 1959, with 651 Tank and all packing pieces. 3 Base marked 'Supertoys', with windows and detachable trailer, striped box with 'Dinky Supertoys' in italic capitals, with all packing pieces, but no price marked on the box, and no date stamp inside the lid, as is common with very late production 1963-4 models. All these examples are fitted with drivers in the Antar cab, including the detachable-trailer model - I agree with Dave and Jacques that this model was always intended to have a driver and bracket fitted, and any that missed out were production errors. There are several examples of yellow-lidded Transporters for sale on eBay at present, but only one is an early production 'Dinky Toys' version, fitted with a driver, and in a box date-stamped 'A R 556' (I have checked with the seller, to save you the trouble, Bruce!) but he wants 225 for it! Hope this clarifies things for you Jacques. Regards, Adrian.' Hello Adrian Over the past 15 years, my data base on factory stamps and models has provided me with much useful information when changes occurred. (More are still needed before the exercise can be conclusive to all models though.) With the 660, I have listed eight with August 1956 (several duplicates) and all have DINKY SUPERTOYS on the base of the trailer. The stamps have been DH856, DH 856 (note the space between the letters and numerals), ER 856, JB 856, jb 8 56, (small case and spaces), MD 856, JR 856 and PY 8 56 (a reversal of the letters with yours). As for your DINKY TOYS casting in the August 1956 box, for what it is worth, I think somewhere at some time, the first owner who may have been given two models, or a subsequent collector prior to the collector from whom you purchased it, has mixed his models when returning them to their boxes. Very easy to do, as I can speak from experience. The only thing that corrected matters in my case were the photographs I take each time I receive a model. Without this evidence it would have been a case of 'remembering'!! (Especially as most collectors are not as fussy as some of us!! :laugh: :laugh: ) The only other possible scenario, and an extremely unlikely one at that, is a number of models manufactured in the early days had been sitting in the storage room waiting their boxes, then forgotten about momentarily and when found in August, they were then boxed. Nobody would have been perturbed with the DINKY TOYS casting on the base of the trailer. Somehow, I think the first explanation I have given is more plausible. If any more are 'found' from now on, would be a case of purposely switching boxes. Take care, and kind regards Bruce

Greetings all! In my above Post I made the following comment: 'There were no 660 Tank Transporters manufactured during September 1956, unless someone can produce a box that contradicts this!' Well - such a box has been found with the Quality Inspection stamp of ik 956 - September 1956. So I stand corrected! The Tank Transporter was in continuous production from May 1956 to March 1957, then May and June 1957, then August through to October 1957 with further periodic production until March 1963. If a box can be found with an April 1957 Quality Inspection Stamp, this would mean the popularity of this model was immense thus making it one of the few models that was in continuous production for over one year, bearing in mind that most models were never in continuous production, but were produced when stock was low and demand was still present. Regards Bruce (150) 20 December 2015

Gentlemen--- Thought I might as well throw my Mighty Antar Tank Transporter into the ring as well. I got this one for Christmas in 1956, so I might get the prize for longest possession. As you can see, it is the early yellow box, with the Supertoys stripe added. The view of the base clearly shows it is the second version, with the Supertoys name added. The box is date coded June, 1956, so am guessing this is part of the first batch with the Supertoys name added? By the way, I can still remember the excitement I had to get this for Christmas...these were very expensive for the day, around $5.00. I have a color slide my dad took somewhere....I will have to find and post some day.Regards, Terry

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Terry, It is interesting to see the difference in colour between the tank transporter and the Centurion Tank. Regards, Chris.

Chris--You are so right, and that seems to happen sometimes with the military models. What is interesting about those two, is that I received both of them about the same time....Christmas 1956, but as Jacques has mentioned, there were still differences in color batches of paint. Best regards, Terry