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521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
8 years 9 months ago #19336
by dinkyfan
Replied by dinkyfan on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Rob---Does that last version have an unpainted radiator shell, or is it painted silver? Looks pretty bright for unpainted....just curious as I have never seen one. Best regards, Terry
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8 years 9 months ago #19337
by hoort
Replied by hoort on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Hello Terry, The radiator is painted silver, it is not unpainted as I mentioned before. Thanks for bringing it to attention! The earlier radiator units are painted black with (hand) painted silver detail on the radiator and the headlights. The reason for the change to a silver painted radiator unit is probably to reduce cost. When painting it silver, there was no need to add silver for the headlights and other detail. That saves one paint job. Next to the Bedford Articulated Lorry and the Bedford Tipper this silver radiator is also fitted on the late issues of the 252 Bedford Refuse Wagon. I think the Bedford Articulated Lorry was discontinued before the other two models, that might explain the scarcity of the Articulated Lorry with a silver radiator.Kind regards, Rob
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- Jan Oldenhuis
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8 years 9 months ago #19338
by Jan Oldenhuis
Replied by Jan Oldenhuis on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
I just received the Classic Toys magazine of which Jan Werner referred to the article by Stewart Orr & Graham Bridges about the Dinky Toys Bedford Trucks.About the interpretation of the Meccano drawing of the Bedford Articulated Vehicle Assembly, discussed in this topic, they stated - The Meccano drawings indicate the following:1. Mask-spraying of deck behind cab deleted October 1948 (so no red versions after this date).2. Rear wheel hubs amended March 1954.3. Treaded tyres specified from April 1958.4. Plastic windows added from January 1960. So my conclusion about the hand painting of the front mudguards since 29-10-1948 is not correct.Stays that the way of painting of the front mudguards visible changed in the later period of production, which can be concluded from my added pictures of two early Bedfords and two later Bedfords. The front mudguards of the early Bedfords are black painted close till the bonnet (see 1st picture), the front mudguards of the later Bedfords are black painted with a visible yellow border between the black painted mudguard and the yellow painted bonnet (see 2nd picture). The cross fading at the front mudguard on the drawing perhaps than means painting to do by mask spraying? And the front mudguards of the early Bedfords perhaps were hand painted in the beginning, as it looks on the yellow Bedford on the 1st picture. Who knows more about that, may tell it.Kind regards, Jan O.
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- Jan Oldenhuis
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8 years 8 months ago #19485
by Jan Oldenhuis
Replied by Jan Oldenhuis on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Bruce- I saw a very interesting share yours in the TMT 409 topic (May 26 2005) about the Bedford Articulated Lorry in which you wrote: 'I will be providing a full story on the production sequence for this model soon, that will include details such as when the trailer mudguards and platform were no longer painted black, trailer tyres, hubs and axles were changed, windows and so on.' I am looking for this information that I can't find nowhere else. Bruce, I will be very pleased when you are willing to add these information to this subject.Kind regards, Jan Oldenhuis
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8 years 7 months ago #19534
by Dinkinius
Replied by Dinkinius on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Jan Further to my last Post, until such time as I can photograph each casting change/variation, the following will assist in identifying what each number in my last Post refers with the first type of casting for the 521 Bedford Articulated Lorry covering the period April 1948 to February 1949 when several changes were made to the casting: 1. Vertical front axle supports 3. Chassis surrounding winding mechanism apperture flat. 5. Rounded lug above rear axle to keep wheel hub away from the chassis. 7. Made in England stamped on base plate 10. Three dimensional petrol tank without added casting 11. Curving chassis on either side of rear axle from the cab to the rear 13. Casting ejector lugs underneath rear pin holding the model's non-hinged back 15. Square-cut front mudguards 17. Chassis to cab above winding mechanism flat 20. Rear mudguards in line with chassis 24. DINKY SUPERTOYS on base plate in small lettering 27. Rear body retaining pin rivet head at one end, crimped at the other 29. Small tow hook 31. Trailer axle on 521 'open' with axle pressed into opening A further change was made circa March 1949, two more changes later during 1949, again in February 1953, and April - June 1953, Kind regards Bruce H. (150) 20170303/1061/0048
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8 years 7 months ago #19537
by Jan Oldenhuis
Replied by Jan Oldenhuis on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Thank you Bruce.Your list of casting changes (and there are many) is very valuable to us. Supplement with pictures makes it even better to make it easier to recognize the changes and to enjoy it. It is especially fun to discover all this.Many thanks for all your research. I myself am very curious about a photograph of 24. DINKY SUPER TOYS on baseplate in small lettering. I could not find such a base plate till now.Kind regards,Jan O.
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8 years 7 months ago #19538
by fodenway
Replied by fodenway on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Bruce, this is an extremely interesting photograph of the Bedford Articulated Trailer rear axle location - I have never knowingly seen this variation! I am intrigued by the small slot visible below the axle, at the division between red and black paint areas. Could this have been the fixing point for a tinplate axle retainer, in a similar manner to those used on Hornby Dublo railway wagons? - Kevin.
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8 years 7 months ago #19521
by Dinkinius
Replied by Dinkinius on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Jan Thank you for reminding me of that comment I made in the old TMT website! Actually, many members while the website was still functioning, submitted material that I was using, which was one reason I never posted my findings. Unfortunately, I experienced something we all fear - the sudden computer malfunction that turned out to be catastrophic! I thought I was fully covered having kept a back-up on my trusty floppy discs. Then something unexpected happened, these discs for some reason or other could not be read through my replacement computer. I took them to my computer guru and he said something had corrupted them! However, all was not entirely lost, as I had been printing out a lot of my records on Dinky Toys, and one of these was the Bedford 25M, 25V, 25W, 521 and 582 cab-chassis. I was using the various casting changes as a dating agent, in conjunction with the release of the models. I have not looked at these records for more than a decade. It shows that the Bedford cab-chassis experienced 32 casting changes/variations, ranging from the front axle supports, to the petrol tank changes, locations of 'Made in England', with these changes not including the introduction of plastic hubs.The variations are listed numerically, which I have used to describe the models found and the date these were in use. As an example, in March 1948, the Bedford cab-chassis would have consisted of variation 1, 3, 5, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17. The dark green with black hubs Bedford Rear Tipping Wagon included these numerals in addition to others, 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17, 20, 24, 27, 29, 31. Of course to make sense of this one has to see the list I have prepared! It was a slow, methodical process involving me purchasing a large number of Bedfords to enable me to have a broad range of models on which to base my deductions. It took me over ten years to assemble this data. I am trying to figure out how I can prepare the list of variations, which would involve me photographing as many Bedfords as I am able to enable a photograph to accompany each variation number. But when can I do that??!! At this stage I am uncertain whether I still have every Bedford I used for my initial investigations! At the present time, I am concentrating on other things, and needless to say, my wife has me performing other tasks around the house which seem to be never-ending. I think it is a conspiracy to keep me away from Dinky Toys! You may have seen my continual request for Inspection Stamp data as these, together with prices written on boxes, have become a valuable tool in determining when models were actually being on the assembly line, and as an off-shoot, when certain changes took place. Actually, when you wrote in Post #15 above, 'So my conclusion about the hand painting of the front mudguards since 29-10-1948 is not correct', you were originally quite correct! I have a 25W with black front mudguards and one can still see on the edge of one, the definite stroke of a paint brush that shows on part of the engine frame. Having said that, I know Meccano utilised a number of ladies on the line to carefully correct these sections where the spray painting was not up to standard. You may have noticed that I have been absent from the website for a number of months. I was going through a 'senior's moment' which I will explain in my email reply to yours. Back to Bedfords. I have never seen a date when the rear axle for the 521 trailer was changed from being pressed into an opening to when the metal was extended to enable a hole to be drilled through which the axle passed. The following picture is a better explanation.
This system was only applicable to the first production of the 521 Bedford Articulated Lorry, although I am uncertain if all models with this feature were packaged in the plain cardboard box with label or if this was extended to the green covered boxes. I have read with deep interest your earlier Posts, and I look forward to exchanging more information in the time ahead. Kind regards Bruce (150) 20170228/1057
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8 years 7 months ago #19544
by dinkyfan
Replied by dinkyfan on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Bruce--To followup with your above comments on the 'green box' that my model came in, I decided to take a few more photos, for those who may not be aware of just how shabby these boxes were. The lower section of the box was fold in such a way as to incorporate the end pieces, but Meccano, or whomever made them, chose to use staples only on one side.....every penny counts! A green tape was then applied, obviously by hand, to both the upper and lower section of the box, showing uneven edges that aren't seen when the box is closed. This particular box is in spectacular condition.....only a few light smudges keep it from being virtually mint. Best regards, Terry
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8 years 7 months ago #19553
by Dinkinius
Replied by Dinkinius on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Terry - It is interesting how your box and mine have an identical cut and glue on its base!
1024 684
1024 347 Actually, stapling only one side of the base was method in their madness! It was a carry-over from the buff boxes that also only had one side stapled. Why might you ask? Yes indeed. It was done deliberately as the model was intended to be laid flat on its side of the box with the side having no staples did no damage to the cab roof of the model caused by metal staples. The boxes were in fact made so that the correct way of storing the model was on its side. If the model was placed with its wheels on the bottom, invariably the axle heads would come in contact with the sides of the box, causing damage, with the box being extended making it harder to place the lid on top. I hope this long-winded description makes sense! The early blue-covered box also used this system until greater use of a very effective glue deleted the need for metal staples, the only staples being on each end. I will be having a chat by email with your Bedford Articulated and box shortly. Kind regards Bruce H. (150) 20170308/1066/1703
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8 years 7 months ago #19539
by Dinkinius
Replied by Dinkinius on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
Good Evening/Morning Jan O and Kevin Many thanks for your kind words. Kevin - Yes, the method Meccano used for the rear axle was unique for Dinky Toys, although I was unaware of the relationship with Hornby Dublo. I have however, seen a similar method with Hornby O guage. As can be seen with the image below, this method did prove not to be such a good idea as the strain placed on the adjourning casting resulted in some paint loss. Jan O. - I quite agree that photographs are essential in providing a visual interpretation. Accordingly, this has been rectified for the first casting for the 521 in yellow with black mudguards all round. You are quite correct with No. 24, as I have encountered a problem with with it. The size of the lettering for DINKY SUPERTOYS which covered No. 22, 23 and 24 of my original list, as I no longer have access to some of the models from which I obtained these details, nor could I find any photographs, those days being before digital photography when one had to be careful with the number of images taken. I am only including it here, as eventually I will (hopefully) locate the models from which I made my original assessment. 1. Vertical front axle supports
3. Chassis surrounding winding mechanism aperture flat.
5. Rounded lug above rear axle to keep wheel hub away from the chassis. Later issues the lug is elongated.
7. Made in England stamped on base plate. (The impression was not very clear on this model!)
10. Three dimensional petrol tank without added casting
11. Curving chassis on either side of rear axle from the cab to the rear. This is only applicable with the Articulated.
13. Casting ejector lugs underneath rear pin holding the model's non-hinged back
15. Square-cut front mudguards
17. Chassis to cab above winding mechanism square cut
20. Rear mudguards in line with chassis
24. DINKY SUPERTOYS on base plate in small lettering
27. Rear body retaining pin rivet head at one end, crimped at the other
29. Small tow hook
31. Trailer axle on 521 'open' with axle pressed into opening
Of the above, No.20 may only be applicable to the Articulated Lorry. It is included here as part of the overall list of variations, as other Bedfords have a different arrangement that brings the mudguards out of line with the chassis. The next version of the Bedford Articulated Lorry, based on my investigations a decade ago, was packaged in a green covered box, a box that is perhaps unique with Meccano, in that it has all the attributes of having been made by a company inexperienced with covering cardboard boxes. It is of course the box displayed in Post #2 submitted by Terry. Kind regards to you all Bruce H. (150) 20170503/1062/2245
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8 years 7 months ago #19568
by Dinkinius
Replied by Dinkinius on topic 521, 921 and 409 Bedford Articulated Lorry (1948-63)
The following series of pictures were intended to appear after Post #21 but my first attempt was a flop in that it appeared after #22, so here is another go! Nope - for some inexplicable reason, please ignore the above which states'Reply to #22' as this is how it has again ended up. The pictures show the first issue of the 521 Bedford Articulated Lorry which together with its companion model in red, was released in March 1948. Bruce H. (150) 20171003/1069:1819 521 BEDFORD ARTICULATED LORRY - FIRST ISSUE
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