533, 933 and 419 Leyland Cement Wagon (1953-1959)

I found this DT 533 Leyland Cement Wagon with ridged hubs. I examined all sales auctions of Vectis and could not find one sold with ridged hubs. They all have Supertoy hubs. Does a member something know about the existence of this model with ridged hubs? Regards, Jan O

Jan--I just checked Jacques' encylopedia, and he states that the early versions of this Cement Wagon did indeed come with ridged wheels, as did the other two Leyland trucks. He does not give a date for the changeover to Supertoys wheels, but I would guess you have a very early one. Did it come with a box with a date code inside? It sure appears to be in very nice condition. Best regards, Terry

Jan O (and Terry) That was a very interesting find - and in near mint condition too! Another Dinky Toy that has been hibernating!! (I just hope it is not a very careful restoration. I too would be interested in seeing pictures of the box, and any stamp on the inside of the lid, or exterior of the base!) I have just checked through old issues of Meccano Magazine, and the following images are interesting as the 522, 532 and 555 appear in these artist impressions to be shod with ridged Supertoy hubs but the 533 shows it to be with grooved hubs. The 514 (only in ridged Supertoy hubs) with the 532 shows that both were shod with the same ridged Supertoy hubs. Then we come to the 533 Leyland Comet Cement Wagon, and the artist impression seems to show the normal grooved Supertoys hubs. Placing all these models in chronological order of release these are the artist's impressions of the model's hubs: June 1949 Ridged531 Leyland Comet Lorry December 1949 Ridged571 Coles Mobile Crane - later to grooved Supertoy hubs November 1951 Ridged 514 Guy Van Lyons Swiss Rolls January 1952 Ridged 532 Leyland Comet with Hinged Tailboard - then grooved Supertoy hubs April 1952 Grooved514 Guy Van Weetabix However early issues were shod with ridged Supertoy hubs. September 1952 Grooved551 AEC Shell Tanker October 1952 Ridged 522 Big Bedford Lorry November 1952 Ridged 555 Fire Engine with Extending Ladder February 1953 Grooved533 Leyland Comet Cement Wagon Note the difference between the 533 and the 30x Electric Articulated Lorry indicating two different styles of hubs. Apparently the artist's impressions were used for the box labels as shown by the images of the box for the 522 and 532 both with ridged Supertoy hubs and 533 which clearly shows the model with grooved Supertoy hubs. I am just wondering if the ridged Supertoy hubs was a case of supply and demand. Perhaps there was an under-supply of grooved Supertoy hubs at a point in time, and an over-supply of ridged Supertoy hubs at various times, and as these were purely toys, whichever was available was utilized until the supply problems had been resolved. Or, Meccano was undecided at the time whether these models should be Supertoys or plain Dinky Toys. Subsequent years with sales number changes clearly shows Meccano was in a state of constant confusion! Hopefully Jan, your model still has its box, and hopefully has a quality inspection stamp which would show the month and year when the model was manufactured. I cannot wait to see the image of this stamp! Terry, what does Jacque's encyclopedia state with the hubs for the Fire Engine and Big Bedford? It looks as if we all have to keep an eye open for ridged hubs on the 522, 532 and 555! Jan - now look what you started!!! Kind regards Bruce (150) 20161014/1006/1250

Hi Terry and Bruce. Many thanks for your comments. Very appriciated. Unfortunately there is no box. I research the views of the members about the appearance of this model with ridged hubs because I don't know the history of this model from the first owner if it is original. I have the opportunity to buy it, but I doubt. I add pictures of MM March 1953 and two pictures of the real one. Kind regards, Jan O.

Hello Jan Many thanks for uploading the page from MM as well as those two splendid colour photographs of the Real Leyland Comet Portland Cement truck. If the prototype had the front mudguards and bumper painted dark blue, I wonder why Meccano did not follow suit, unless it would have increased the cost of the model. Your photographs may very well be the catalyst for a craftsman out there to restore a dilapidated model choosing the scheme shown above. It is a pity that the model has lost its box though - still we may be able to unravel this mystery. Can you upload another photograph of the underneath of your model, making it as sharp as you can, as there is one small area I would like to re-examine in close detail. I have found one small item that is of interest but I will wait for the image of the chassis before making any comment. Kind regards Bruce (150) 20161015/1009/0208

As I said, I don't yet have the model. I'm still negotiating with the seller about the price while I in the mean time examine the comments on my question. I will post the picture if I buy and receive the model. By the way: I did a post at your new subject 'Boxes', but could not post it as a reply to you. The reply button on the end of your comment did not appear, also repeatedly not. Therefore I pushed finally on the quick reply button at the beginning of your comment. I wonder if you also got a message in your email box as a reply when I post it with the quick reply button. Regards, Jan.

Hello Jan and all, You found a very peculiar example Jan! One should have the model in hands, but looking at the tyres and the axle ends it seems to be genuine in my eyes. If the price is not too ridiculous you might certainly be inclined to buy it (I would). I believe it is a remarkable exception, which like Bruce suggested too may have had to do with a very incidental shortage of grooved hubs. Even the mock-up of the Cement Lorry has grooved hubs and I have never seen a Dinky Supertoy introduced after 1952 (like this one, February 1953) with ridged hubs. I havent seen a 532 Leyland Comet with Hinged Tailboard with ridged hubs either, though available early 1952 already and seen illustrated with ridged hubs in the catalogues and MM. Can anyone show me an example with ridged hubs? Indeed, the mock-up of no. 532 has ridged hubs too, but the design of this model took place as early as 1950 already. The earliest Comet, however, the Wagon, no. 531, introduced in July 1949, is arguably often seen with ridged hubs, as many will have been produced before the introduction of the grooved DST hubs in the course of 1952. Finally, a lovely photo of the real one that is. It looks to be a modern setting with a possibly restored example. For my last years calendar I was happy to use a seemingly contemporary photo, which was kindly made available to me by Dave Busfield.By the way, there are quite some Dinky(Super)Toys without wing details added, which are so familiar on the real-world vehicles. The blue finish of those would have made the model even more attractive than it is already! And if anyone finds a no. 555 Fire Engine with Extending Ladder with ridged hubs I ..... Kind regards, Jan W

Hello everyone, I have just received a 533 Portland Cement lorry with the normal grooved hubs. Maybe Bruce could decipher the stamp on the inside of the lid? The price on the end is 6/10. The box illustration shows grooved hubs. I also have a 419 to compare. The 533 is marked as a Supertoy and has '533' on the tray casting. The 419 is a Dinky Toy and has '419' under the tray. Ron F

Hello Ron A great example of a really early issue - it was made a month before the model was released - the usual early batch that goes out to the various agents in the UK to be ready for sale when the Leyland is advertised in the Meccano Magazine. But I do not understand the price of 6/10, as this is a price for which the Cement Wagon was never sold. On its release it was priced at 6/- which was reduced to 5/9 by April and then 5/3 on 1 October 1953. Are you quite certain the price is written as 6/10? Maybe the agent was milking his little customers as the retail price set by Meccano was followed by its agents with the sales representatives keeping an eye on things the main purpose being the good name of Meccano itself. The stamp states GP 1 3 equates to January 1953. My 533 in a blue covered box was quality inspected in May 1953 but unfortunately has no price on the box. (The style of numerals for the later sales numbers for this model have been written in ink on the upper label does seem to indicate ownership at one time in France, Belgium or The Netherlands, although Jan will be able to correct this analysis!) I have added a picture of it, together with a later but uncommon 533 in a blue striped box. This one was quality inspected in November 1953, the price 5/3 on the box matching the time frame from September 1953 to March 1954. Incidentally Ron, in September 1953, the 533 Cement Wagon cost 9/3 in New Zealand. The inspection date for my 533 in a blue striped box adds information as to when this style of box was first introduced for the 533 Leyland Cement Wagon replacing the blue covered box with orange and white label. (The honour for being the first model packaged in this new, brighter blue-striped box goes to the 582 Pullmore Car Transporter in April 1953.) And coming up at the rear, is my own 419 Leyland Cement Wagon in its yellow covered box, quality inspected in January 1957, which I received for either Christmas later that year, or my birthday almost at the end of the year. Sadly it is now looking a little sorry, for wear and tear with that having occurred during my two decades in Papua New Guinea. Kind regards Bruce 150) 20161016/1012/2148

Very nice examples Bruce, especially that early one. Hard to find one without the usual few chips in that beautiful yellow paint. Best regards, Terry

Hi Bruce and all, Thanks for the interpretation of the date. Here is a scan of the price written on the end. Presumably it is a price? Cheer Ron

Although this model never had any change in finish (except perhaps for the width of the silver trim of the front bumper), some examples are far more glossy than others. I love the soft, satin finish of this one (hard to visualize this in a photo). The box happens to bear the same date as Bruce's, January 1957. Kind regards, Jan