Meccano Factory Drawings

I'm so sorry Chris, however illogical that may be: 32c was meant to be the catalogue number for the Bedford Van 'Kodak'! So it was given away already and was not available to another Austin Van. We know that it didn't come that far in the end. 'Kodak' became no. 480, and the subsequent Austin Vans got the numbers 471 and 472. Kind regards, Jan

Hi Jan, That IS strange, even by Dinky standards, still the Bedford couldn't be 33 could it? It would have to be a Mechanical Horse then! Maybe they were right to re-number after all. Chris Warr.

Unfortunately arguing makes no sense: Meccano-Dinky standards have always been inscrutable ... Regards, Jan

Greetings all As a result of a recent post, I am copying the drawings I have posted on various threads into this single thread 'Meccano Factory Drawings' and where needed, slightly enlarging them for better viewing. (It is just as well a search through previous threads revealed the existence of this one, otherwise a new and duplicate thread would have resulted!) The first drawing is '3-TON ARMY WAGON - COMPLETE' Drawing Number 13940. Other drawings submitted by me on other threads will follow in time, thus bringing all these scattered drawings into a single thread. Kind regards Bruce

Hi Bruce, thank you very much. Posting factory drawings in this thread is very much appreciated of course but has serious size restrictions. If you have higher res material the factory drawings section in the documents archive (accessable for members only) is much more useful to upload. That is really the place where the DTCA fulfills the duty of preserving the scattered Meccano factory drawings. 91 drawings have been stored there at this moment, on the highest feasable resolution. Kind regards, Jan

Jan No doubt you have not as yet read my post in the 621 3-ton Army Wagon thread. This explains my current actions, so I am copying it here: Kind regards Bruce Dear Jacques and Jan Up-loading full size factory drawings to the Member's Menu has caused me considerable concern. Unlike those that have already been up-loaded in the Factory Drawings section of the Member's Menu, I have had to pay a considerable sum of money to acquire these drawings which no doubt is applicable to other members who have purchased similar items. The DTCA was indeed very fortunate that Mike Richardson provided the Association with access to these to be up-loaded into the DTCA website prior to them being sold through auction such as Sotherby's. One should also bear in mind that these were freely gathered from the factory at the time of its closure that in effect saved them from destruction for which we as collectors owe Mike a deep sense of gratitude, and good on him for having ultimately made a considerable amount of money as a result of their ultimate sale. However, at some point in the future I will be selling my collection, if anything to hopefully fully, if not partially offset what they cost me. Having them available online would in effect make these worthless as most are factory die-line prints and not the original drawings, although I do have several of the latter which may still retain their value. I do not like making it appear that I am cash-starved - simply stating a fact. This conservative approach has not deterred me from sharing these drawings on this website, although at a size which would preclude any copying. To be seen in the Forum and not in the Member's Only may in fact result in a visitor to this site becoming a member. Then of course adding them freely to any product that is sold without some form of recompense, would be quite unfair. I am open to any comments or suggestions. Bruce

Dear Bruce, sorry, no, I did not read that. I appreciate very much that you nevertheless publish them in a fairly readable size. Apparently we have different views. Perhaps I'm a bit too idealistic. I too paid for my documents, not in order to simply own them (what's the fun of keeping them in a drawer?), but primarily to save them for present and future research. I regretted very much that this material was 'commercialized' by auctioning them. Fundamental sources for research should not cost money, but should be publicly accessable, that's why I will never sell my unique archival Meccano materials, but donate them (posthumously) to a publicly accessible institution. Until that moment I make them as public as I can, for the sake of the study of Dinky history. The full size (digital) documents unveil much more valuable, virtually invisible information than 'just' a readable picture (as we can see with so much surprise and admiration in the documents archive). Never mind, that's just my view. Kind regards, Jan

Bruce and Jan, I fully agree with Jan's view on the availability of the original drawings for research. Bruce's drawings history is quite different. As far as I know the drawings and many other artifacts were collected from the factory by Mike. Some were offered to the DTCA and some sold to Jean Michel Roulet who also he has a huge pension as a civil servant always try to make a buck of every thing and he had his bunch of drawings auctionned at Collectoys without retaining a copy. The result is that now these drawings are scatered all over the world and most of them lost for ever fo any examination and research. There is a guy who was making Dinky like models under the name of Imit'Toys. They were not counterfeits as many other people do but his chalet in Andora burnt with all his Dinlky Collection models and documentation. All his elastomere dies burnt as well. What would happen if this happened to you ? Your precious drawings would be lost for ever. I understand your point about the commercial value of your drawings but the only way to save these precious documents is to duplicate them and make them accessible in a fully readable form to most of the collectors. The Dinky Toys encyclopaedia is one way of doing this, the scans can also be stored at the Liverpool Museum, there must be other ways as well. Although it would be interesting to see the drawings here, this web site is not a permanent way to keep then. See what happened to the huge work that we did on TMT. Jacques.

I have to agree with Bruce here. Firstly I do not see my collection in terms of 'this is worth this much' or 'that is worth that much' but THERE IS a value on my collection. After all I have made a considerable monetary investment in putting it all together over the last 20 years or so and it is unfair for my descendants to see it all just disappear after I have gone. When the DTCA website was first put together Jan, Peter Golden and I uploaded a significant amount of factory drawings for the benefit of members and future interested parties, this is what was agreed to at the time. In my case I uploaded all the drawings in my possession at that time. Over the subsequent months I realized that other senior DTCA members were not doing likewise so the drawings I have acquired over the last two or three years have not been uploaded as this process has not been done in a fair manner. I will not be adding to this database as only a small handful of the membership has participated in what would have been a valuable process. Bruce is absolutely right in what he is doing and I concur totally with him. If we agree to exchange information between ourselves that is a personal decision and outside the scope of this forum, I think that this is a good idea as items are then in more than one location and effectively protected for the future. Dave

Ah, this is a real discussion! I respect everyone's view, as stated above. Perhaps a difference should be made between the value of the information and the value of the very physical document. As Bruce says already, the value of a dieline copy is less than the value of the orginal. What then is the value of merely an electronic file, which is not the document but only its information? If value is a point, one may even consider the presence of one's drawing(s) on websites, in articles etc. as an 'advertisement' making the phisical document even more desirable than before it's image and information was unknown ... Kind regards, Jan By the way, I presume that there are many hobby's or interests that only cost money and nothing of monetary value is left: travel, sports, etc. Collectors are the only Lucky people who get their money back if they stop and sell(!). Still, I have no illusion at all about the value of our collections when we all die and the next generations have quite different interests and emotions.

David is absolutely right in stating that all of us here provide information to be added to this data base and that several members of the cometee do not although they have some very important documents. Dave, you should write this in the journal, they may read it. Here we all know this fact. I fully suport Jan's idea about the value of the drawings, I think that in twenty years time they will be worthless. There are some younger collectors collecting Dinky Toys, but they do not buy expansive items, they refurbish or collect played with. If you consider your collection as an investment, you will have a great disapointment.

No Jacques, I do not think that the Original drawings will become worthless, I believe many Dinky Toys (except the unique and very rarest) even in superb condition, will considerably devaluate, when all these 'childhood sentimental guys' die. Especially original physical drawings will keep their value (if you like), because they remain unique and ... will not suffer in value from making them visible to everyone, on the contrary (although in fact this is not MY goal). Kind regards, Jan