23j and 511 Ferrari auto de course (1956-1963)

I have acquired a French Dinky 23J Ferrari that I am restoring. It is the version without the cross hatched grille. The driver's head is quite different from the later issue with a rather flat cap instead of a domed helmet. It does not look like it has been altered in any way. I apologise for the quality of the photos as my camera isn 't up to the very close-ups. Ron Ford

Thanks, Ron, for sharing this detail with us. I didn't know of the driver's head difference in the French casting. If I had only one ... The French catalogues keep showing the initial version, not the one with the flat cap, as demonstrated by this 1963 catalogue detail picture. Kind regards, Jan

Not sure if such a drivers head is not the result of some 'private modification'. I have all the three versions - the first one has a smooth radiator, the second version is the one with the squared radiator grille, the third version too, but with convex hubs - and all of them have the driver with the rounder helmet. Walter

Hi Jan and Walter, Bit of a false alarm I think when I re-look at the toy again. Think it is simply a miscast part as all the other details are poorly defined - goggles and back of helmet. Cheers Ron

Hi everyone; I will look deeply at my Ferrari 23j to see if I have one driver with a flat helmet. Anyway, there are two others differences which prove that there were 2 moulds : The pipes on the left The sleeves of the driving suit have not the same sizes Cheers Richard

I do not think that there were two different castings, but rather some irregularities in the process, both as far as the exhaust stubs as well as the helmets are concerned. The pictures shows (left to right) the first, second and third version of the Ferrari, with slightly irregular pipes. Regards Walter

Hi Walter. And why the sleeves have not the same lenght ? Here under, shades of red. I have 18 Ferrari 23j/511 and I will compare closely next weekend Cheers Richardf

I found these drawings in the french Dinky Toys club journal : Type 1 above and type 2 below. Richard

Beside the shape of the helmet and the sleeves of the pilot, there is another casting difference to the English 23H Ferrari: the shape of the opening in the tail end, where the base plate rests. The French Ferrari has a pointed end, whereas the English Ferrari's is slightly rounded. Walter

Here is my french Ferrari team : the two below show the difference between the transfers : The first one is a single and the second one is a double. We can see the black guide mark line in the middle. and the front : cheers Richard

Here is mine. In the back row of the drawer are all the English Ferrari, with different baseplates, nose cones and hubs, in the front row the three versions of the French Ferrari, with different grilles and hubs. One the left are the two first issues from 1953 and 1956, below left the two announcements from the British Meccano Magazine and the French Dinky Catalogue and below right the original Ferrari 500 with the 4 short exhaust stubs from early 1952. Walter

Hi Richard and Walter, Wonderful collections of Ferraris you both have there. The French market was so lucky to get their Ferrari in red, I presume blue / yellow was authentic on the English one? I must admit my knowledge of the real thing is pretty poor. Chris Warr.