Axle ends

Hi all,I know that the change from crimped to domed axle-ends took place post-war, in the early 50ies.But there are pre-war models with domed axle-ends too. For instance all the 23 Racing Cars I have seen (lead and zamac) have domed axle-ends on one side, crimped ends on the other.The pre-war 23a Racing Cars have both: domed/crimped (mostly the early models with the 2 raised number circles) and crimped/crimped (mostly the later models with only one or without raised number circles).Here are my two questions:1. Is it therefore safe to assume that - as a general rule (perhaps with some exceptions) - the change from domed/crimped axle-ends took place in the mid30ies?2. Are there other pre-war models with the same 'axle-end-history'?Thanks and best regards Walter

Walter--Sorry that I cannot be of much help on this one....I only have one pre-war Dinky race car, the 23. Not sure exactly what year it was made, but it does have the two number roundels, with only the left side actually stamped with a numeral. It has crimped axles all around. Perhaps others can add theirs as well. Regards, Terry

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Hello Walter, I can answer some of your questions on the axle ends. First the change on 23 Racer from open cockpit to pilot was made December 1934. From this date the 23a was pictured with a Pilot in Catalogues and Meccano Magazines. In my collection I have first type 23a, 4 stubs, no Pilot, with round/crimped axle ends. Both type of hubs, smooth and Tootsy type. I have two Humbugs with Tootsy hubs and both round/crimped axles. I have pictures from Humbugs with smooth hubs and round/crimped axles. There are also Humbugs with only crimped axles. In my collection Racers 23 lead and Mazak with 4 stubs and only crimped axles. So it is not possible to tell when the round/crimped axles were used. But for sure only a very short time. I have found two other models with round/crimped axles. I have saved these from auctions. No 24 e Super streamlined Saloon, red with black chassis. Chrysler Airflow No 30a, red with smooth blue hubs. Also some No 24 cars with spare wheel in left front wing have the wheels attached with round pin outside and crimped inside the body. I have never seen other type models pre war with round/crimped axles. For sure they are not common. If anyone has more information on this, that would be great. John.

Thanks, John.Your reference to the 24e model lead me to TNT where the same subject of domed/crimped axles was discussed and explained by Jacques (whom I miss a lot on this forum!). I agree with your explanation and the fact that you have 23 racing cars (4 stubs, no driver, lead and zamac) with either domed/crimped or crimped/crimped axles in your collection is proof that both axle types where used for a certain time and therefore a precise allocation of those models on the time-axis is hardly possible.Thanks again and best regards Walter

Oh,I forgot to add that it seems to support my theorie that - as a general rule - models with mixed axles (one end domed, one end crimped) are most likely a little earlier than models with crimped/crimped axles.Walter

Hello, as far as I know the pre-war (1939) no. 39c Lincoln Zephyr Coupe and the whole 38 series sports cars were the first cars to be introduced with domed axle ends. From then on every newly introduced car got domed axle ends. The last crimped axles were replaced by domed ones in 1952. Kind regards, Jan

And what about these?

Hi Walter, thank you for your comment! I agree, I was aware of these cases, especially for the the 23/23a. Perhaps we should make a difference between 'incidental' and 'structural' occurences of the domed axle ends. That's why I carefully limited my remarks to introductions of new models (and continued subsequently). Kind regards, Jan

Thing is, Jan, that when the 23 Racing Car came out in early 34, it had this domed axle end on one side, crimped on the other. Structural or incidental?

Why did Meccano make our lives so difficult, after all these years? Kind regards, Jan

The thickness of the axel is important. Post war models use only the thicker axels, which are found either crimped both ends or domed both ends. There are a few exceptions when the axel is crimped internally. The domed axel ends as you sugest were introduced late 40's to early 50's, likely progressive on varying models. David

Thank you, prof. Dujardin!