Auction Catalogue Descriptions

Jan Your post did come across positively! I think having had my fingers burnt on a couple of occasions with other auction houses (Astons in Birmingham springs to mind), I am always so grateful to Vectis when they show an understanding attitude, despite the cataloguing mistakes they might make. On a slightly different note, my problem in the recent past has been the development of services like saleroom.com. They undoubtedly open up a whole new opportunity for collectors, but it is all too tempting to bid without having done sufficient homework; few auction houses of course offer more than the simplest of descriptions and it therefore requires effort on the buyer's part to establish condition. I have been caught out on more than one occasion. I think I've finally learnt my lesson! Kind regards Mark

Mark A little belatedly, but thank you for your response in Post #24 although I must confess I find it somewhat incredulous that a company would take back an item that had been purchased 10 years previously without so much as a whimper. I also am extremely envious as to how you and Jan were treated so differently from my complaint which is almost as if, dare should I repeat it, that matched the distance between Australia and the north of England with no consideration whatsoever to my 20+ years as a loyal client! In that time I have won 361 lots from that Company totalling over 1200 models, Dinky, Corgi, Hornby and Hornby-Dublo. But it has only been in the past 8 years or so when lot descriptions started falling off the rails which coincidentally or not matched the arrival of at least one member of staff. When you later wrote few auction houses of course offer more than the simplest of descriptions and it therefore requires effort on the buyer's part to establish condition, is a valid point, and may very well be aimed at me for not enquiring the condition of the 905 and in particular whether the tank tabs, the start of this topic, were intact or not, however that does not excuse an auction house that does bother to provide a description but fails to include any defects that should be brought to light. Giving Vectis due credit, (and it is interesting that you latched onto Vectis as the auction house, when neither Jan or I mentioned their name with our problem lots) I did have two previous occasions when I received what was not purported to be and they acted in a fair and responsible manner, although not to the degree offered to Jan. The first occasion when a 551 box actually contained a 150 model, I returned the lot which also included a French Dinky 596, but by the time all costs were added up, a rather large difference with the exchange rate (Pounds Sterling to Australian Dollars) from when I originally paid for the lot and when it was refunded plus the conversion fees both times plus postage cost that had been incorporated in the original invoice, I actually lost more than 40 on the deal simply because someone was too lazy to either remove the model from its box to examine it, or did not bother to turn it over and check its base plate. The second occasion, was an empty box for a promotional Triumph 2000 which by the time I received it, was missing its little colour identity label on the front. I was only offered a refund when the box was returned; nothing like Jan when a percentage discount was offered should I choose to keep it. With just the one option I decided to keep the box as one can still see the residue where the label once was so it will have to do. I was also not about to lose more money on the deal. However, the problems I have encountered have not been limited to buying. I have also sold quite a few models and on two occasions it was due to sheer incompetency that one lot, a light blue and stone Hudson Commodore was completely unrecognised by the cataloguer as being a rare model but I was able to withdraw the lot. To ensure accuracy I re-wrote the description on behalf of Vectis and it later sold slightly above its true value. The intervention of the seller should have been unnecessary had the staff member responsible at the time been more diligent in the execution of his duties. Unfortunately, I was not so lucky with my very rare, first issue, near mint and boxed 965 Terex with a Euclid base plate. The first attempt by the cataloguer to describe this model was a disaster. He referred to it, as he has done so with most previous Terex models, as a 965 Euclid Rear Dump Truck Terex, blissfully ignorant of the fact that the model is referred to as a 965 Terex Rear Dump Truck packaged in its appropriate box for the time, a box still worded for the Euclid. Due to its incredibly inept description, sold for only 100 considerably less than its true value. Good luck to the buyer who scored a real bargain! On the other side of the coin, I received on my birthday in 2012 a near mint and boxed 1st Series 501 Foden 8-Wheel Diesel Wagon whose woeful description enabled me to buy it quite cheaply. The description mentioned the model being repainted it is nothing of the sort only the initials of its original owner written on the base in some sort of felt pen being a possible detrimental addition, although for me it was and still is inconsequential. So badly written descriptions can be very helpful me as a buyer, but most certainly not for the seller! Wouldnt it be marvellous to see more care taken in providing better and more accurate descriptions, including items unseen in the photograph such as packing pieces etc, better photography, more knowledge of the subject, and most importantly, greater care on behalf of the consumer, especially from The Worlds Largest Toy Auction House. It would in fact be a win-win situation for all concerned buyer, seller and the auction house. In Australia we have a Federal Government authority, the Australian Competition and Consumers Commission. The ACCC promotes competition and fair trade in markets to benefit consumers, businesses, and the community. It also regulates national infrastructure services with its primary responsibility is to ensure that individuals and businesses comply with Australian competition, fair trading, and consumer protection laws - in particular the Competition and Consumer Act 2010. I am not sure if the UK has a similar organisation that looks after the interests of consumers, if not, then perhaps something should be done to correct this anomaly. That is the sort of positive reaction we all should have. And finally, the remaining unanswered question: Why was I not treated by Vectis in the same, gentlemanly and professional manner as both you and Jan? I wrote four times, pleading my case and any thought of a return or partial refund was never offered. Bruce For those interested, the following links take you to the models in question: www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId...ot.aspx?LotId=350145 ; www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId...ot.aspx?LotId=376419 www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId...ot.aspx?LotId=503664 ; www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId...ot.aspx?LotId=475385 (150)20160318/837/2223

On the topic of auction descriptions I have just seen this from Milestone Auctions in the USA. I was not aware of any Fodens being made in France, or have I missed something???? Dave

Apparently the only one. Very rare indeed!

buzzer999 wrote: 'This went under the hammer at Boningtons Auctioneers today:Either it is a repaint or I have missed a very rare colour - it was not listed as a repaint in their description.I bought a Guy Van Lyons from Boningtons earlier this year and it turned out to be a repaint. They refunded my money in full without question but I am now very wary of them.Dave'DaveThe 281 was originally maroon with cream side flash and red wheels. Nothing in the 'description' that stated it was a repaint. Bad.The auction house's descriptions were woeful, so perhaps the word 'descriptions' should be just 'words'! I was online and noticed some items went quite cheaply. Not sure about the Porsche 182 as I think it went too cheaply at . . . . This Post lost most of its content during the transfer process with the Post being 'terminated after 'as I think it went too cheaply at . ' Although I have a copy of the original Post including all the missing sections I have decided that it is unnecessary to insert the missing parts due to some of my comments that may be considered inappropriate at this time. (In case anyone is the slightest bit interested, the near mint and boxed red 182 Porsche 356A with cast silver hubs sold for 70.00.) And yes, it was an excellent buy. Bruce 20160407/1328/2306

Greetings All The subject of my Post does not really fall within the definition of this topic 'Auction Catalogue Descriptions', but it is considered to be appropriate despite it being an auction on eBay. For those who are endeavouring to obtain a good quality 697 25-Pounder Field Gun Set, may I suggest that you ignore the set currently on eBay, Item Number 121693421390. Here is an image of the set. 1200 900 To be noted, the Tractor unit has plastic hubs so too the 25-Pounder Field Gun, neither of which as well as the trailer were never packaged in the lidded box, only in the end flap pictorial box, which was rather flimsy and many sets never survived the time as a toy. The seller lives in the UK, and I had thoughts of writing to him/her through eBay but decided against it as I would probably be wasting my time. By the way, there is a better boxed set currently on eBay at a cheaper price too! Kind regards Bruce (150) 20172507/1145/1800

The following is an edited copy of my Post #797 dated 1 August 2017 submitted in the NEW ARRIVALS topic. It is included within this Topic as its contents are relevant to the subject: All these Posts refer to my acquisition through an auction conducted by Island Auction Rooms, 79 Regent Street, Shanklin, Isle of Wight, of a 25x Breakdown Lorry, trade box with four examples. I am including additional images of the counterfeit trade box as well as changed some of the original text. I have also highlighted some sections not previously included, and these paragraphs can be found towards the end of this Post. I urge readers to carefully note my added comments. Unfortunately, this 'trade box' is not what it purports to be, but is in fact a forgery, cleverly executed (which is what should happen to the individual who submitted this Lot), and I immediately wrote to several members of the DTCA seeking their views which has caused me considerable embarrassment. Incidentally, bidding was extremely brisk with the sum achieved being unbelievably high, an indication of the deep interest this 'trade box' received. I was the unfortunate 'lucky' highest bidder. Since receiving the '25x trade box', I have pondered for several months whether to publish these details on this website or leave it rest as there has not been any enquiries through the DTCA with this '25X Trade Box', foregoing any embarrassment that it is in the interest of members and others who collect Dinky Toys to be extremely cautious with anything being passed off as a 'trade box' for a 25x Breakdown Lorry. The following are images that caught my attention once I carefully examined the box and its contents, on realising that the Breakdown Lorries did not fit in the box, except on their sides with no room for a cardboard divider. The following image, not included in the 'New Arrivals' Topic showing the models sitting upright. Obviously the models are too high for the box: Another image not previously included, is of the models themselves; only one the first one in a darker shade is an example most likely of an early issue showing the recessed opening for a never utilised crank, with its tyres being smooth, the remaining three are later issues with the winding handle in the chassis being blanked out and with treaded tyres. The end labels are in fact two separate labels joined together, the join being faintly seen, with the join being noticeable with the following image in particular the solid line at the top does not match with the join: One of the end 'label' was starting to peel off, so I proceeded to hasten its removal - that revealed the box was actually for a 29c Double Deck Bus: The above image is of the other end label. The Inspection Stamp on the base of the box was also a dead giveaway: The quality inspection date stamp GW 453 (April 1953) does not relate to a period when the 25X would have been packaged in a trade box. The price of a 29c Double Deck Bus in April 1953 was 4/1. This matches the inspection date of April 1953. This is also the price written on the lid of 4/1. The price had decreased from 4/3 in February 1953 to 4/1 on on 15 April 1953. Therefore this box could not have been issued by Meccano in Liverpool as it was only the dealer who would have written the price on the box. I immediately brought this forgery to the attention of the company handling the sale, Island Auction Rooms based on the Isle of Wight with the following part of my email: On seeking advice from a number of highly respected Dinky Toys collectors, the conclusion reached is that this box has been carefully doctored as a counterfeit/forgery which has unfortunately deceived not only your staff but all those who lodged bids in good faith. Someone has gone to extraordinary lengths to bring about this deception. Someone who knew the 25x came in a trade box for 4, as well as the factory Code Number at the top of the label, 50039 where usually the name DINKY TOYS appears. Was this Trade Box created by a collector whose only interest was for his own purposes who has since passed away taking with him an explanation. Whatever the reason, a vendor has lodged with your company an item that misrepresents a true 25x Breakdown Lorry Trade box. I am attaching photographic copies of the box and its contents that provides pictorial evidence of this fraudulent item. I respectfully request that you carefully consider the above, take this matter up immediately with the vendor, and arrange a full refund of my bid amount plus ancillary charges. Naturally the box and contents will be returned at your cost. This was Island Auction Rooms reply, no name or signature: sadly we are outside our terms and conditions to make a refund as the vendor has been paid out. I understand we have both been hoodwinked and indeed the vendor had no idea either. As a good will gesture we could offer a refund of 120 and you retain the goods, this is our best and final offer. My reaction is not fit to be printed, and on approaching several very good friends in the UK, one responded who owns an auction company: If one is being cynical, in this case the person at Island Auction Rooms may have reckoned that since ***** is in a separate legal jurisdiction, there is nothing he can do about it. I have made plenty of mistakes in my time, but I try to sort them out and be reasonable. I think when this person says they are outside their Ts and Cs, they mean that they cant get the money back from the vendor? When we have similar situations here (although not selling such an obvious fake I hope) we pay up the capital sum the full amount and if the auction is closed I have chosen to refund out of my own pocket sometimes. I dont want to talk ill of others but I think this stinks and the ignorance of both vendor and auction house is no proper defence, they should pay up in full. I was then provided with advice with whom I should refer this matter, but as this could become quite protracted, and of course, legal costs have to be weighed, I decided to accept the unreasonable offer and of course carefully note never do business again with Island Auction Rooms. However, I am not finished with this saga, and am currently exploring the matter through a very good friend in the UK that the current 'Auction Bidding Act 1927' is woefully outdated and considering the electronic age in which we exist today, more protection has to be provided by those bidding in absence, through telephone, postal, or internet means with this Act being brought up to the 21st Century. I wonder if this was the box that initiated its presence in Ramsay's British Diecast Model Toys Catalogue, in which case, the publishers should be notified and have the entry removed, as such a trade box has never existed, except as a forgery, unless an indisputable, original and authenticated box comes to light, which I think never will. Incidentally, prior to the auction I requested additional photographs, and all I received were identical to those in the auction with two additional ones that were practically useless. I decided to see how the auction progressed with this lot, and initially bidding was very brisk, which indicated to me that some may have been present at the auction, and as the amount increased, I finally joined in, much to my later regret! Finally, I will in time be posting a copy of this Post in the Topic 25X - 430 BREAKDOWN LORRY Topic. My closing remarks in my Post #797 are still relevant but I am not repeating them here. If any other member has had a painful experience with an auction house, or has documentary evidence showing the failure of an auction house to disclose matters of concern, may I suggest that you post your concerns in this Topic, to enable me to pass the details to my associate in the UK. In time, members will become aware of the process within an unexpected source. Kind regards to you all Bruce H. (150) 20170208/1149/0135