686 25 pounder Field Gun (1957-71)

Having found a later 686 25 Pounder Field Gun the other day, two things struck me: the considerable loss of weight in relation to the original 1957 examples and an odd extention to one of the box's side flaps with the remark 'Patent applied for 686'. Is this a common practice on contemporary boxes? Because this model is so tiny the weight of wheels and tyresform a considerable part of the model's total weight. This means for the final examples with smaller plastic tyres and plastic hubs a reduction from 29 to 23gramms, a difference of some 20% less, which makes a remarkably different light 'feel' of the model. Kind regards, Jan

Jan---Very interesting, especially the flap comment a out a patent. Maybe someone else has seen something similar, but you wonder why it was necessary. I would be curious to know how much cost savings Meccano realized when they made the wholesale changed to plastic wheels and tires? I can only imagine it was significant. Best regards, Terry

Jan Quite a detailed analysis of this great little model. Top marks to you! The six gramms is quite a difference considering it was just the two hubs that were changed. Maybe the diecast hub version was still loaded! But one thing is quite noticeable - unless I am mistaken and need new glasses, the size of the trailing arms with the last issue compared with the earlier plastic-hub version which is also slightly different to the first version. The size should have added some weight, so obviously the change of hubs reduced the overall weight by less than 6 gramms which then had some additional weight added with the trailing arms bringing it back to 6 gramms difference. As for the end flap extension, I have noticed this on a number of other later issues, and my past conclusion was that this extension could be used by the dealer as a price and identification label as the inner flap can be folded in leaving this part visible. I will go in search of the other models with this extension, and post pictures on this Thread and the other appropriate Thread. Many thanks for your detailed Post Jan. Kind regards Bruce (150) 20160329/847/1415

Jan Found an example of the end-flap extension rather quickly - in a recent acquisition from Wallis & Wallis - and it is a French Dinky as well!, a 510 Peugeot 204. See the images below. One can see the line of dots after the sales number on the extension. Perhaps for the dealer to write the price of the model that can be later removed if need be by the buyer that keeps his box pristine and unmarked, but also now incomplete I will post these images as well as the others I have just photographed on the 510 Peugeot topic. Kind regards Bruce (150) 20160329/848/1536

Hello Bruce, nothing wrong with your eyes, I overlooked that difference of the trailing arms thickness, and I agree about the slight adjustment of the die over there. That must certainly have added its share to the weight loss. Nevertheless, feeling the model in one's hand the weight balance is considerably influenced by the difference in the make of the wheels. Interesting to see the French counterpart of this remarkable rectangular side flap extension. Kind regards, Jan

Jan I have just weighed my late issue 686 that is part of my 697 set featured elsewhere in this website packaged in an end-flap box. This is virtually identical to the centre 25-Pounder in your group of three 686 guns. It is interesting to see that it actually weighs 1 gram heavier than yours at 24 grammes! Most likely the different tyres would have some bearing with this very slight difference. Kind regards Bruce (150)20160329/851/2125

Jan The inner end-flap for your 686 has certainly provided some motivation!The images below are of two different types of end flaps whose purpose was probably the same as the one on your 686 and my 510. It is possible these two were the first versions and when it was realised that the inner flap could become detached within the shop, Meccano experimented with the 3rd type as shown on your 686 box. I will post these on the 641 Army 1-Ton Cargo Truck Topic. Kind regards Bruce (150)20160330/853/0231

The dealers flaps are well known on french Dinky boxes. A thiner trailing arms thickness probably means a new die. Can you please tell us more about this variation ? Thanks and regards. Jacques

Well, Jacques, I made some new photos and they may explain what you are wondering about. If not, just ask once more. The oldest one first, followed by the latest and completed with a photo of both underneath. Kind regards, Jan

Dear Jan, I am sorry that I did not thank you earlier for your excellent pictures but I was away in Russia for a couple of weeks.Your pictures do show an obvious variation of the gun carriage. At least the top part of the die has been replaced by a new part. This happened sometime after the wheel change to plastic hubs. So we have three variations : 1) first carriage, ridged hubs 2) first carriage, plastic hubs 3) second carriage, plastic hubs Any more ? Thank you Vectis for their excellent Dinky data base. All the best.Jacques