687 25 pounder Ammunition Limber (1957-70)

dinkycollect wrote: Bruce, In each corner of the inside of the trailer are bos on wich the base plate rests. When the change was made to the flat base plate, these had to be reduced in hight.'[/i] Jacques Getting back to the original topic as the last few posts are slightly 'off topic', I fully understand what you are saying, in that a close examination has revealed the existence of the corner bosses of most of the trailers in my trade box, which shows the work needed just to change the location of the base plate from above the axle to underneath as can be seen with the images below. Finally, I have asked this previously, but does anyone have any thoughts as to the reason Meccano dispensed with the sales number on the base plate? Bruce

Bruce, This is probably one of the many questions that will remain unanswered as probably less than half a dozen of the lads at Binns Road had the answer and most of them have probably left us already. Jacques.

Jacques So in essence, there are three versions of the 687 Ammunition Trailer for the 25-Pounder Field Gun: 1) Base plate above the axle and supported on four corner bosses, with the plate inscribed with the 687 sales number 2) Base plate under the axle with the corner bosses reduced in height, plate inscribed with the 687 sales number 3) Base plate under the axle with the corner bosses reduced in height, with no sales number 687 inscribed For the fastidious collector, any of the above having the base plate reversed, front/rear. Bruce

Yes Bruce, this is correct but one must add the casting difference above and so far we do not know if the change of base plate position occured at the same time as changing the angles. This could increase the number of variations. The early drawings on the July 1957 M.M. shows the trailer with the cut angles meaning that the right angles were not cut but added. This is confirmed by the fact that the die could not be modified in the other way. As the 686 25 Pdr. gun and the 688 tractor have been fitted with plastic hubs, the limber should also be found with plastic hubs. Once more we need the description of as many trailers as possible to know how many variations there are. All trailers seem to have treaded tyres. The description must include : with or without ref. number base plate position above or below the wheel axle. Above means between the axle and the casting with or without right angle corners ridged or plastic hubs My only trailer is : no ref number base plate above axle no right angles plastic hubs The manufacturer of the actual trailer was Metro Cammel of Birgmingham ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Cammell ) a compagny well known for building most of London's underground (and many others) trains and also tanks during both world wars.

Here are four different 687 trailers From left to right: First the earliest, underneath the axle with a reference number, angled front corners. Second and third, on top of the axle with no reference number - two orientations, angled front corners. Fourth the newest, on top of the axle, matt finish, plastic wheel hubs and square front corners. Sorry, no idea why they removed the reference number or made the front corners square. Dave

Thank you David for showing your trailers. There is also one with base plate above the axle and with the ref. number. One question remains about the most recent one, are all the trailers with square angles fitted with plastic hubs ? Could you please provide a large picture similar to the above one of the under side of your trailer with right angle corners ?

Square cornered trailer image. I have only ever seen the square cornered trailer with plastic wheel hubs. Dave

David Many thanks for this picture on which I can see that : the square angles do not hide the previous angles completely the towing ring has been reinforced the base plate has not been modified when it was changed from below to above the wheel axle. The two folded sides are still there. As you can see on this picture, this limber has square angles and non reinforced towing ring, so we have a fivth variation which precedes yours.

Bruce, Congratulations for this late 697 - 25 Pdr field gun set. Is it the latest issue ? How is the towing ring of your limber ? as 1 or as 2 ? Are the tyres rubber as on 1 or plastic as on 2 ? Jacques.

dinkycollect wrote: 'Bruce, Congratulations for this late 697 - 25 Pdr field gun set. Is it the latest issue ? How is the towing ring of your limber ? as 1 or as 2 ? Are the tyres rubber as on 1 or plastic as on 2 ? Jacques.' Jacques - Thank you for your kind and appreciated words on this set. The 687 has the towing ring 1) and the tyres for it, the 686 and 688 are rubber. Below are some more images in slightly greater detail: This model, based on the pencilled price of 10/3, a price that was current throughout 1967 only, provides us with a time frame when the amendment to the trailer was made with the exception of the towing ring. Kind regards Bruce

Bruce, this is exactly what I expected. Yours is the variation four out of five until we discover one more. Could you please post a picture of the underside exactly as my pictures ? Thanks. Jacques.

dinkycollect wrote: 'Bruce, this is exactly what I expected. Yours is the variation four out of five until we discover one more. Could you please post a picture of the underside exactly as my pictures ? Thanks. Jacques.' Jacques How is this?? Kind regards Bruce