501 and 901 Foden Diesel 8-wheel Wagon (194757)

Strange, Kevin! To add to the mystery I checked my early 934 and it has NO number underneath at the rear. AND, the Transport Toys guide by Gordon and O'Neill shows a Leyland Octopus Wagon with plastic wheels, in red with a grey back (be it a little darker as it seems), which I never have been able to explain ... Kind regards, Jan

Jan, could it be that the red/fawn Octopus in the Transport Toys guide was created from a late Esso tanker chassis and Foden body? It is difficult to see whether a screw or a rivet (which you would expect on a later model) holds the two parts together. Does anyone else have models with the number 934 cast in? Kevin.

Yes, I believe that it was made-up, by swapping component parts. But the authors, who make an expert impression on me, are silent about this and mention it as simply 'a colour variation'. Kind regards, Jan

Kia Ora Jan and all, A quick note to say that my reasonably mint 901 does indeed have '934' cast at the rear as with your one. Sorry no box to check the date, but it i an early edition with the fine treaded wheels. Sorry my camera isn't good enough for a good photo. Picking up on Jan's extract from Gardiner and O'Neill's Transport Toys book (page 69), the red and fawn Leyland Octopus is equally suspiciaous as the 935 Octopus with chains (wrong paint pattern, wrong wheels, etc.) and the 505/1 Foden with chains blue and green. There are sevral other examples of 'made up' models in their books. John Kinchen did have a two tone blue 505/1! Ron

Jan et al

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I just checked my Foden Diesel Wagon, and it also has the 901 cast into the lower rear above the hook. I got mine new, and it is still in the original box, which is stamped 0555.....should be May, 1955. Mine also has the black block treaded tires, and is just like the one Jan showed. Hope this helps. Best regards, Terry

Hi, I may have made a mistake reading the inspector's date stamp on my 501/901 box - what I took to be 'M 1 55' could actually be '11 55', with a blurred mark at the front. This would make it slightly newer than Terry's '901' marked example, and closer to the release date of the 934 Leyland. Kevin.

Kevin----That would sure seem to make more sense as far as dates are concerned! Best regards, Terry

The new acquisition of an all dark blue first type no. 501 Foden 8-Wheel Wagon is the reason for some additional pictures and observations. The idea for issueing this Foden Wagon must have come up very early post-war because a brass mock-up for this model (DT&MM p.248, ill.423) seems to have smooth hubs and, moreover, makes the impression to be executed on a ca. 1/60 Dinky Toys scale, with the early small treaded black tyres. Apparently the concept for this model predates the concept of the bigger, actual 1/48 scale Dinky Supertoys. That may be the reason too that the picture on its box differs in style, is more old-fashioned than later issues. The Foden Wagon makes part of the first five Dinky Supertoys, announced in Meccano Magazine of August 1947. These eight-wheelers were all fitted with the ridged Dinky Toy hubs and 20 mm black herringbone treaded tyres. The first models to be issued featured an all black chassis, black accentuated front wings and a silver strip on both sides of the cabin. The brick red and dark blue examples here demonstrate that. The early boxes contained abundant staples, which can be very harmful to the model, if placed incorrectly inside the box. This model must be stored on its side with cabin below the only stapleless side of the underbox. Otherwise serious rubbing will be the result. In fact the article by Rob van Hoort in the present April 2017 issue of the DTCA Journal tells considerably more about the early Fodens than I can offer here. So let me recommend to you to read that elaborate, abundantly illustrated article. It was big fun for me to take the photos of Robs marvelous models! Kind regards, Jan Werner

Kevin, Jan, Terry and everyone else! I have enjoyed reading the exchange of comments concerning the 901 Foden with the marking of 934 under the rear of the drop-side wagon. Kevin - having looked at the quality inspection stamp for your dual numbered 901/501 Foden Diesel 8-Wheel Wagon, I must regrettably throw a spanner in the works in that I consider your first assumption was in fact correct, ie, M 1 55, January 1955. When you re-evaluated the QIS as being November 1955, with the jumble at the beginning as being the numeral 11 I offer the following. By October 1955 (perhaps a month or two earlier) the price for the 901 in the UK had increased to 8/-. So, if the box was quality inspected in November 1955, to have reached a retail outlet at the earliest of December 1955 the model and its box should have had the current recommended retail price of 8/- not 7/9. (Meccano Agents were pretty much 'on the ball' when it came to price changes, in particular those that went up, as the dealer's price would have also gone up.) The second point that confirms the stamp as being January 1955 is the box itself. By May 1955, all Foden Diesel 8-Wheel Wagons were packaged in a DINKY SUPERTOYS box without a dual number, which apart from anything else immediately discounts the inspection stamp as being November 1955. We are all assuming that the model and box have always been together. Anything could have happened during the intervening six or so decades, when the boxed model could very well have passed through a number of hands. Basically, collectors are notorious (me included!) with up-grading the two commodities, box or model, mostly without any thought as to whether the upgrade actually matches reality. (I hope I am not in that category! ) In the course of a quarter of a century of research, I have seen too many boxed models that are simply unrelated and have been as a result of a collector either not knowing his hobby, or simply enjoying his hobby without any regard to accuracy. For many, a box is just a box, and if it is better than the original, who really cares. In the case of this model having 934 on the rear base of the drop-side wagon component, the initial drawings for the Leyland Octopus, in particular Job No. 7874 were commenced on 8 June 1954, with the first changes to the drawing being effected on 21 March 1955 incorporating a change from Dinky Toys to Dinky Supertoys. (See copy of drawing below) Whether a model in a box quality stamped January 1955 would have contained a drop-side rear with 934 on it would in all probability be highly unlikely. But like everything else with Dinky Toys and Supertoys, logic may not play any part and all cards are on the table, spanner and all!! One thing stands out why did Meccano specify 901 and 934 on the models depicted in the above Posts when the unit itself was identical to both models. Yet another Meccano Mystery of which we are left to ponder! Ron - there is nothing wrong with your camera! It is a sharp image in the area under discussion! I will be providing a link for these fascinating exchanges to the 934 Leyland Octopus Wagon Topic, as the subject does have relevance to that Topic as well. Kind regards Bruce H. (150) 20180105/0100/1175

Thanks, Bruce, for your diligent research. Although we have not yet cleared up the 501/901 conundrum, at least I now know that my dual-numbered box dates from January, rather than November 1955 - I was assured by the seller that the pair had been in the family from new, and Ihave no reason to doubt his word. - Kevin.

Hi all, as you can see from my membership number I have not yet met any club members in person. I have been collecting Dinkies for a number of years with a special interest in Fodens 1947-1964. Having now some 140 plus examples. About 90 are originals half with boxes. The rest are refurbished wrecks purchased from all types of sources. One such example from a local boot fair last summer. Having stripped many coats of house paint fron this early wagon I suspected that this was a little different when I then read the wonderful two piece artical in the journal and Rob van der Hoorts collection of MK1 and 2 Fodens. On page 13 April 2017 Journal, the top photo is of an all red MK1 wagon with red wheel hubs and black chassis. What was unusual is the body was also finished in red. I have never seen this example before and I am sure it is quite rare. Later, on re-reading Journal for July 2017 Rob shows us a picture on page eleven of his red and fawn MK2. wagon with yellow hubs. This got me sorting out my parts box and models undergoing work. It then became apparent that my boot fair purchase was the same as Robs all red MK1. example, but instead of red hubs mine has black hubs. The penny dropped. I have never seen black hubs on any kind of Foden. I have checked all my books and can find no other ever mentioned or photographed. This Foden was original under the house paint even down to an almost perfect set of nine 'herringbone tyres', no tow hook, or tank slots, even the cab plate finish was as it left the factory and even the axles looked like new with no rust. From memory, the only other model at this time that used black ridged hubs was the 39 series American saloons. Is it possible that this may have been where the black hubs came from? Have I got another mistake, can anybody help in this hunt for the truth? I'm sure with the vast pool of knowledge out there someone knows. Chris Instance. 578.

Hi Chris I think everybody's first thought will have been 'show us the pictures', I know mine was. After all, 140 examples is quite a total and this black-wheeled anomaly is intriguing. What I lack in knowledge I make up for with enthusiasm and I'm keen to see and hear more of your collection. Kind regards John