504 and 941 Foden 14-Ton Tanker 'Mobilgas' (195356)

Bruce, I actually also thought of a manufacturing error. But it is very interesting to explain this error further (Sherlock Holmes). Unfortunately, I do not have a picture of the back of such a 'wrong' tanker with reverse logos. Because I would like to know if there is a logo on the back side of such wrong tanker. I assume that the logos are placed before the tank is mounted on the chassis, otherwise it is impossible to put a logo on the front of the tank when the tank is already mounted on the chassis. If the tank has been reversed incorrectly, there must be no logo on the back side of the tank. If a reversed tank on the backside also has a logo, then the error is 'carefully corrected' and perhaps unperceived passed the quality control or taken home by the employees. I think there are very few of these 'wrong' models. So my research is not yet complete. I hope ever to get such a 'wrong' tanker. This wrong model has for me now become the status 'collector's item'. When someone may become a picture of the backside of a Mobilgas tanker with reversed logos, please add this picture in a comment.Bruce, you have come to your 504 Mobilgas tanker in a very special way and moment through an auction of Wallis & Wallis. Just when your father would have turned 88 years old. Of course a special remembrance for you.Indeed I have mint Euclid and Terex models. I like these models very much and I'm very happy to own these models. A number of damaged models are stored separately. I think I have all the versions outside of the colored wheels.Kind regards,Jan Oldenhuis 6-7-2017

Jan In regard to your Post #9, the image you posted of the reversed side transfers does show a portion of the rear transfer incorrectly behind the cab. With this example if anything, the photograph displays the method of manufacture; the tank was completed separately and then once the transfers were added, the tank was then attached to the chassis. Although I have never given this much thought I had presumed, incorrectly, that the transfers were the last items to be completed before the model was inserted into its box. The last item was the actual attaching of the tank to the chassis after the transfers had dried. It would be nice though to see whether the rear of the tank has its own transfer as well! Guess we will never know unless we hear from the owner - one of these days! The following, a later issue, 941 in a blue-striped box, is a very good candidate of the reversed side transfers with one big difference - there is no visible evidence of a transfer on the end tank behind the cab which would possibly indicate that the rear of the tank does have the correct transfer. I wish the Lot had a photograph taken from the rear! Unfortunately, this model was sold at auction for 130 last year. It would be great if the new owner could also contact us through this website to verify whether the rear of the tank has its usual transfer. Ramsay makes no mention of a reversal of transfers with the 941 as was the case with the 504 Mobilgas tanker. The plot thickens! And like you, we can only hope and wait that one day, an image will be added to this Topic. Oh yes, the description made no mention of a transfer at the rear. As for my Euclids/Terex models, actually my total is 24, the other ten having been acquired in the process of upgrading my collection and have yet to be sold. Kind regards Bruce Hoy (150) 20170607/1133/2347

Bruce, it is super that you post this picture. I am very happy with it. It is a proof that these types of mistakes have occurred more often. It makes the research even more complete and exciting. We must hope that there soon are coming more comments with photos that may answer these questions. it's hard to wait for an answer. Kind regards, Jan Oldenhuis 6-7-2017

To find a factory error of this model is not so easy, but I succeeded. 5-12-2017 was an auction at Vectis. A Dinky Toys 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed Mobilgas transfers was auctioned and I won it. I bid online and was outbid four times. Ultimately the price was hammered at GBP 200. I find that a reasonable price for this very special model. Maybe I only once in my life get the chance to buy such a special model. I had to wait 3 weeks for delivery. In the meantime, I started thinking about the way this model could be assembled and how that error could be made, but first I tell you how I did find this model. My 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers. Photo Vectis of my auction example. After contributions and discussions above about reversed Mobilgas transfers I started looking for a 504 Mobilgas tanker with reversed transfers as I had announced in comment #13 and I found it on Vectis. It is surprising the same tanker as was mentioned and illustrated in my own comment # 9 above and was auctioned at Vectis on 6-12-2016, but was not sold. This lot must have been in storage for a year. Before the auction I had asked Vectis by email whether there was also a Mobilgas transfer on the rear side of the tank and that was confirmed to me. With this knowledge I dared to bid, but I took a risk to bid on the basis of one photo. After unpacking and examining the model and his box, including checking out the tin locating tabs under the chassis and compared with my own example, I was excited and concluded that his total appearance presents itself as a 100% original factory made error and no homework. There is no question of any manipulation. By the way, you have to understand that it is impossible to manipulate the transfers for instance by loosening the tank and turning it 180 degrees on the chassis, because the gantry with side ladder then comes to the wrong (right) side of the tank, so manipulation at that way is impossible. I think that this one is a unique example with not only reversed transfers on both sides of the tank, but also a Mobil gas Horse transfer on the front and rear side of the tank. I never saw a picture of such a model with also a transfer on both end sides of the tank. Thats why I feel it as a golden catch. I show pictures of the tanker at the end in full size so you can judge this by yourself. It is its 1st issue with red filler caps and its 1st type blue box with orange/white label. It has some minor damage but is still in a very good condition to show it in my display case together with my other DT tankers. My DT 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers right side with front. My DT 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers left side with rear. My DT 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers - top side with innerside lid box with Quality Control Stamp. My DT 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers base. Now I own this model, I find it interesting, after 64 years, to research this error of applied reversed transfers on this model and search for the stage of assembly when the mistake could be made. Because I dont know the order of assembly, I have to speculate about that and try to find out the way they did it. First of all in this question is important to know that the Mobilgas transfers, according the attached Meccano drawing Job No. 12821B (with permission of David Busfield and Jacques Dujardin), must always be applied with the horse facing to the front of the tank and one horse decal on the rear side of the tank with a horse facing to the left. The tank is oval-shaped and the front and rear side are equal. The gantry with side ladder must always be mounted on the left side of the tank. Meccano drawing 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with transfers, by courtesy of David Busfield. My 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers left side. Meccano drawing DT 504 Tanker Mobilgas with correct transfers on both sides of the tank. My 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers right side. Meccano drawing with correct Mobilgas transfer on rear side of the tank. My 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers, but correct Mobilgas horse transfer on rear side of the tank. My DT 504 Foden Tanker Mobilgas with reversed transfers. Note the Mobilgas Horse transfer on the very narrow front side of the tank. 1) Through this example of factory error we all can see and conclude that it is impossible to apply the waterslide Mobilgas transfer on the front side of the tank when it is already mounted on the chassis. The tank is too close to the cab to do so in a perfect way. So the Mobilgas transfers must be applied on the tank before mounting the tank on the chassis. This makes it more complicated to apply the transfers in the right direction. Because the ladies of the assembly line had to apply the transfers on the separate tank, they had no view on the cab of the truck to determine the front and rear side of the tank and had to look for another point of recognition to determine the place and direction of the transfer. So the next steps are therefore more difficult to find out: How did they do it? 2)The question is then: were the transfers applied before or after placement of the gantry with side ladder? I think for it, because the transfer of the horse on the left side of the tank is so close to the gantry and side ladder that it is difficult to apply it perfectly. But how did they then know the front or rear side of the tank without the presence of the gantry with ladder on the left side of the tank and without a view on the cabin? Only the presence of the prepared holes for fixing the gantry with side ladder on the left side of the tank were in this case a point of recognition for the ladies to determine the place and direction of the transfer. Personally, I think that in this stage of assembly the error were made, but it would be very nice if an old employee of Meccano Liverpool could tell how they did it and could confirm my thoughts. 3) If the transfers were applied after placement of the gantry with side ladder on the left side, they could easily determine the front and rear side of the tank looking to the place of the gantry with side ladder, always on the left side of the tank. 4) There is theoretically still another possibility: the transfers were first of all applied on the painted bare tank without the prepared holes for the gantry with side ladder, after which the gantry with side ladder were mounted on the left side of the tank according the correct place and direction of the transfers. But how to fix the gantry with side ladder on a painted tank with transfers without damage when there are no prepared holes present to place it? You see that there are several options and maybe you only think, why all this effort to research this, because there is a very simple short explanation for it, namely: They only made a mistake! Thats all. But I don't find that satisfying because I find it interesting to find out how the tank with its transfers,
gantry with side ladder
and filler caps are been manufactured
and put together to discover how they could made this mistake.I find it interesting to research such things.Back to the Binns Road factory.Afterdiscovery this error in the factory,
it werecarefully corrected,
simple by still placing a Mobilgas horse transfer on the rear side of the tank.Then it passed the Quality Controlor was taken home by an employeeand leaved the factory as a very specialand hard to find model of which I am now the very luckyand proud owner.Comments about all this are of course very welcome.Greetingsand Merry Christmasand a Happy New Year to all membersand dont hesitate to react.Jan Oldenhuis,
22 -12 -2017 [img] / images / sites / default / files / forum - images / MyDT504FodenTankerMobilgaswithreversedtransfersleftside..jpg [/img] [img] / images / sites / default / files / forum - images / MyDT504FodenTankerMobilgaswithreversedtransfersrightside..jpg [/img] [img] / images / sites / default / files / forum - images / MyDT504FodenTankerMobilgaswithreversedtransfersrightsidewithfront..jpg [/img] [img] / images / sites / default / files / forum - images / MyDT504FodenTankerMobilgaswithreversedtransfersleftsidewithrear..jpg [/img] [img] / images / sites / default / files / forum - images / MyDT504FodenTankerMobilgaswithreversedtransfers.NotetheMobilgasHorsetransferontheverynarrowfrontsideofthetank..jpg [/img] [img] / images / sites / default / files / forum - images / MyDT504FodenTankerMobilgaswithreversedtransfers - topsidewithinnersidelidboxwithQualityControlStamp..jpg [/img] [img] / images / sites / default / files / forum - images / MyDT504FodenTankerMobilgaswithreversedtransfersbase..jpg [/img] [img] / images / sites / default /

That is a nice piece of research and arguing, Jan. With you we have an expert Dinky Toys detective on board! And of course congratulations with this (re)discovery and final catch of this factory flaw. Remarkable that it was put up for re-auction one year later and that there was bidding enough now (or the reserve was lowered or dropped?). This kind of flaw can of course rather easily happen when the item to be decorated is fully symmetrical (except for the tiny holes for the catwalk, to be mounted after the transfers were applied, indeed hard to realize when the catwalk were present before that already). Besides, as Graham Bridges writes in Classic Toys (Vol1/1, August/September 1994. page 6) the tanker body was not made by Meccano but by a subcontractor in London. The proprietor, Tom Atkins, was an ex-Meccano employee. The tanker section as a whole, complete with pipeholders and catwalk was assembled by the Meccano factory, after spraying. The filler caps on top were a Meccano product. As one hardly sees tankerbodies which lost their fore- and/or end caps, or the catwalk unit, I wonder how these were fixed so firmly, without being able to bend lugs or whatever inside. No doubt some of the more technical DTCA members have an answer to this. Finally, discussing the Mobilgas Tanker here, I think it's appropriate to show the pictures below, featuring the Mobilgas Tanker. It is the result of the editors of NAMAC's bi-monthly Auto in Miniatuur asking me to supply them with a nice photo for the cover of the December issue - this issue including a Dinky article of mine. And so I did. The idea was to present a trio of various classes of Dinky Toys. So, besides the huge eight-wheel tanker, I chose the Studebaker Land Cruiser as a saloon and the Aveling Barford Diesel Roller as a work horse for this presentation. it's always nice to see one's creation on the front cover of a magazine. Kind regards, Jan W

Jan There is nothing to add to your excellent article. I knew about some Mobilgas tankers having one transfer the wrong way around but yours has two plus the logo at the front of the tank. It is certainly unique.

Jan, the ends of the tanks are soldered into place, presumably by the London-based contractors. Catwalks have tabs, but to ease installation, they are all bent over in the same direction i.e. towards the left side. This involves bending to a shallower angle than would be needed towards the right side, therefore lessening the chance of breaking the tabs. The completed tank can only be fitted to the chassis in the correct manner (catwalk and ladder to left side) because of the uneven spacing of the fold-over mounting tabs. It is impossible to fit the tank the wrong way round without alteration. To find a tank with transfers on both ends must be very rare indeed! - Kevin.

Indeed Kevin. I had not yet seen that. Indeed, if you see the picture of the bottom of the Tanker, you see clear that the tabs on both sides are uneven distance from each other. So indeed the tank can only be mounted in one way. Kevin, thank you very much for this very valuable comment. This way, more and more details become clear. Jan Oldenhuis, 22-12-2017

Thanks, Kevin, your explanation regarding the practical tank unit assembly is exactly what I was hoping for. Kind regards, Jan W

To visualize something from a separate tank, I add photographs of a separate tank from Editons Atlas that I found on Ebay. As you see is the tank open on the underside, so inside can be something fixed when needed before mounting on the chassis. I think that the real Dinky ones are the same. Jan Oldenhuis 22-12-2017

Clear enough, Jan! Now I vaguely remember having seen that one come along. Not being interested in Atlas so much I must have 'filtered that one out'. But, whatever one thinks of Atlas, it's an admirable job to make such a faithful replica of all production details. Kind regards, Jan W

As a result of the 504 Foden 14-Ton Tanker, from 1948-1964 different versions of this tanker have been made, all of which have their own drawings, but in the end the various fixed components of the tank are all the same.504: Foden 14-Ton Tanker 1st type cab504/941: Foden 14-Ton Tanker 'Mobilgas' 2nd type cab942: Foden Tanker Regent 2nd type cab943: Leyland Octopus Tanker 'Esso'Following Kevin's comment in # 19 about soldering the ends of the tank I attache the Meccano drawing Job No. 7876 of Jan Werners comment in topic 943, in which this is clearly stated. In this very valuable drawing are also practical all the Jobs with numbers of the different components/parts of the tanker to be found. So there are more drawings to be found that can provide clarification.That's why I add the Meccano drawings Job 12823, 12824, 12825 and 12826 from the DTCA archive to make it as complete as possible.Jan Oldenhuis, 27-12-2017.