14c and 401Coventry Climax Fork Lift Truck (1949-64)

Just received the first issue Dinky Toys 14c Coventry Climax Fork Lift Truck and the last issue 404 Climax Conveyancer Fork Lift Truck, both with box. The forklift truck is produced in 1949 and is manufactured still during the closure of the plant until 1980. I find it interesting to bring the development of this model in picture. In DTCA I did not find an existing topic 14c, 401 or 404. However, in TMT, but not fully until the end of Binns Road. The model is classified as a Commercial Vehicle: 1) 14c UK: 1949-1954 - Orange, Brown or Dark Red, Green Fork. Tan driver - 108 mm - 1954 renumbered to 401 2) 14c French: 1950-1951 - Orange, Yellow Fork ???, Tan driver - 108 mm - Text baseplate ??? Pictures??? 3) 401 UK: 1954-1964 - Orange with Green Fork. Tan driver - 108 mm - Renumbering of 14c 4) 597 French: 1959-1961 - Orange with Yellow Fork. Tan driver - 108 mm - baseplate:Meccano Paris Dinky Toys Chariot A FourchesCoventry Climax Assemble en France 597 5) 404 UK: 1967-1980 - Red and Yellow, later Orange and Yellow - 97 mm - CG4 decals, Pallet, Instruction sheet. Steerable. 6) 404 UK: 1978-1980 - Yellow - 97 mm - TC4 decals, Pallet, Instruction on the back- and underside of the box. Steerable. I show pictures of my two models and boxes in which the differences are visible. I have box 14c with stock number 50003 on the lower right front. This box variation I have not seen in TMT or DTCA. My box 14c is priced 7/2 with pencil. Through my collection catalogs and leaflets can I reconstruct that my box in March 1951 in the store is priced. The stock number is (re) introduced around 1950 and starts with 5 digits at 50000. My stock number 50003 (March 1951) does not match the model number 14c. Box 582 Pull More Car Transporter (1953) represents stock number 50582 which matches the model number 582. I don't know if the stock numbers after the renumbering were still be used. I have not seen examples of that. I add some photos of a French Export 14c box. This box is also mentioned in TMT, but no picture. There are several box, model and color variations of the truck 14c, 401 and 404. I found 13 box variations of the Fork Lift Truck: 1. 14c UK - orange lid box - orange label - orange model lettering 2. 14cUK - orange lid box - orange label - black model lettering 3. 14c UK - orange lid box - orange label - orange model lettering - stocknumber 50003 4. 14c French - orange lid box - orange label - white model lettering Chariot A Fourche 5. 14cUK - orange lid box - green label - green model lettering 6. 14c French Export - red lid box - yellow label - black model lettering Chariot A Fourche 7. 401 UK - Blue striped lid box - red model lettering 8. 401 UK - Yellow lid picture box - black model lettering - yellow under box 9. 401 UK - Yellow lid picture box - black model lettering - blue under box 10. 597 French - Yellow lid picture box - black model lettering Chariot A Fourche - yellow under box 11. 597 French - Yellow lid picture box - black model lettering Chariot A Fourche - blue under box 12. 404 UK - White Yellow carded picture box - black model lettering 13. 404 UK - Red Yellow Blue hanged window box - white model lettering I hope at reactions in this forum with additions of information and variations, even for model 404. OK ... of course ... I know. .. the later models, such as 404 have plastic parts, but to speak with the daughter of Frank Hornby: 'Aren't they Dinky!'. It deserve a place in this forum too. I'm from 1946, but hope that also younger members the stunning 'modern' models from the period 1960-1980 will show and discuss in this forum. I have for instance some questions about changing the name of model 404. Why were the name of model 404 changed in 1967 from Coventry Climax to Conveyancer Fork Lift and why were model 404 after that in 1978 changed in Climax Conveyancer? Did the Coventry company no more exist in 1967? Is model 404 a reproduction of a real one from an other company than Coventry? I am a Dutchman (not the flying Dutchman) and don't know enough about the British Companies, but I am interested to know that. I hope that UK members can solve these questions.

Thank you Jan for your comment and the pictures. An interesting addition from you in terms of the difference in the modelname on the box and the base plate. Thank you for the very sharp picture of the base of 597. Very clear. Well noted that the image has been mirrored in the catalog. Fascinating to discover these things. That is the fun of the hobby. I still have a question about my photo of Box 8: 401 UK: Does this model actually exist with a blue driver? Patrick Trench and Ramsay describing this model only with a Tan driver. Best regards, Jan Oldenhuis.

Hello Jan O., Jan W. and greetings to everybody, thank you for an excellent summary of an often-overlooked model. I have four examples in my collection, so, Jan, using your box number system, I hope this brief summary will answer your question about the box type 8 model. My first model is is an early production in box type 1, orange lid, orange label and lettering, which has a date stamp on the base 'ASo29' - but I am not sure what this represents - I originally thought February 1949, but the model was not released until November 1949, so that can't be correct? Another mystery! My second model is in your box type 5, orange lid, green label, green lettering, and thoughtfully, someone has written 'Xmas 1949' in tiny letters on the top edge of the lid label. The box base has the date stamp 'BF109' so October 1949, just in time for Christmas! My third model is a later issue in a type 9 yellow-lidded box with blue base, and inside the lid is the date stamp '12 EO 61' so presumably December 1961. This model has a tan-painted cast driver and green-painted cast wheel hubs with later grey block-tread Supertoy tyres. Now, to come back to your question: my fourth model is a very late production, and is in a type 8 yellow-lidded box with yellow base. Unfortunately, there is no date stamp on this box, but the model has not only a blue plastic driver, but also green plastic wheel hubs, so is a very late production model - I would think some time around 1963.Hopefully this will answer your question - I think that the blue plastic driver replaced the tan cast one around 1960, and the green plastic hubs were fitted from around 1962. In any case, I think your box type 9 was the earlier one, and the one you listed as type 8 with the yellow base was later (what a pity the date-stamping of the box lids seems to have stopped around 1962). Kind regards, Adrian Nash 141

[img]/images/sites/default/files/forum-images/Dinky 401 late issue plastic driver and hubs DTCA.jpg[/img]

Thank you Adrian for your very valuable addition and your answer to my question about the blue driver with a photo of the subject. I still found two examples 401 at Vectis with a blue driver, both with model 8 box with also a yellow base as yours. Vectis also talks about a later version. So it is clear that the combination 401 with blue driver with a box 8 with yellow base actually exists. Adrian thank you very much. Kind regards, Jan O

A nice summing up, Jan, thanks. An intriguing model of which I have some (box)variants too, but still a lot to go ... I have mentioned before that the both the French assembled model and its box and official French illustrations show some remarkable inconsistencies as the name and the representations of the model are concerned. Firstly, the French pictures are all mirrored, showing the handle and the box next to the driver's seat on the left side of the model. This goes both for the French box for the early import version and the one for the later French assembled issue. But for the catalogue pictures as well. Secondly, the base of the French assembled Fork Lift Truck reads clearly CHARIOT A FOURCHES (plural), whereas all the box titles and the catalogue texts show CHARIOT A FOURCHE (single). Kind regards, Jan

[img]/images/sites/default/files/forum-images/Catalogus 1960 F p19.jpg[/img]
[img]/images/sites/default/files/forum-images/dte401 + dtf597 + boxes.JPG[/img]
[img]/images/sites/default/files/forum-images/dte401 + dtf 597 onder.JPG[/img]

Just funny: a Christmas card I made some years ago ... Kind regards, Jan W

By the way, as no. 4 is concerned, I have seen that picture before, but box (early 1950s) and model (concave hubs, ca. 1960) do not match, they do not belong to each other. Kind regards Jan W.

Thanks, Jan W. I had already doubts about this combination. That's why my questioning in the description of model 2 of my model list: 14c French: 1950-1951 - Orange, Yellow Fork ???, Tan driver - 108 mm - Text baseplate ??? Pictures???. I have the photo from Ebay with the intention to show the box. I asked the salesman about it, but he evades an answer, so it is not right. Jean-Michel Roulet describes the color of the fork of model 14c somewhat cryptic. He writes: (I have the Dutch translation and I translate with Google in English) - '14C:. Coventry Fork Lift Truck. It is an English small Fork Lift Truck sold in a French box of red cardboard with yellow inside, in 1950. But if this model appears again with a cast text: 'Assembl en France' from 1959 to 1961, with the fork yellow painted sheet, and catalog number 597, here is an English model sold in a French box, hence its presence in this list, and not in those of the imported vehicles as is the case with the 27 AC farming tractor, for example. ' I think. Roulette is here describing the French box 6 from my list and not the French box 4 with the orange label. But the describing of the model is not clear to me. Therefore my questions: 1) In what years was the French 14c box 4 with orange label issued (Perhaps a date stamp in the box??) and with which model 14c? French or UK? What color fork and text of the base plate? 2) Which color model and baseplate belongs to the French 14c box 6?? The characteristics of model 597 are clear: yellow fork and French baseplate. Kind regards, Jan O.

Jan. I found just now a comprehensive and very detailed article from your hand about 14c Chariot Coventry Climax (1950) in TMT. In that article my latest two questions are answered. Can you copy that beautiful article from TMT in your comment. Kind regards, Jan.

Jan. I found just now a comprehensive and very detailed article from your hand about 14c Chariot Coventry Climax (1950) in TMT. In that article my latest two questions are answered. Can you copy that beautiful article from TMT in your comment. Kind regards, Jan O.

Hi Jan O., I'm glad you found it. I have written a few hundreds of such 'articles' over there, and later on the Planet Diecast Forum, in the past decade. It is not feasible for me to copy all of them here, that would be a tremendous job. Let's hope that this second version of he DTCA website will live forever, because so many information has gone, or has got hidden and 'frozen', because of the virtual loss or decline of such webforums. Sometimes I get a little bit 'tired' of writing this all again and again. Some of my favourites, however, will be published in The DTCA Journal in a fresh format, in the column 'From my Dinky Toys Collection Catalogue', starting in the next issue. I hope they will be appreciated. Kind regards, Jan W.

Knowing the quality of your catalogue Jan, I, and all other members of the DTCA will be very pleased - I can't wait Dave