431 Guy Warrior 4 ton Lorry (1958-64)

I've just picked up the 431 Guy Warrior wagon shown below. Box is tatty, but the truck with windows is better than the play worn one without windows that I already had.

Hi, very nice acquisition. I prefer windows-less Dinky Toys, but if I had to choose I'd make the same choice as you did! Kind regards, Jan

Hi! Thought I would add my latest acquisition - a 431 Guy Warrior 4-Ton Lorry complete with its nice box, although one outer flap has become detached. Never having had one of these beasts in my care before, I was surprised to see that the back still has 511 from the original Guy 4-Ton Lorry! It seems that Meccano never got around to changing the die to represent the 'new' 431 Guy (Otter) 4-ton Lorry and finally the 431 Guy Warrior. Is this the usual back on the Guy Warrior? Hopefully RSSierra can check out his two models!! What about you Jacques? The Guy and its box came from Southend-on-Sea in Essex. Kind regards Bruce (150) 24 February 2016 #797

it's the same story on the 432 warrior flat truck, Bruce. The back is still stamped 512 .

Thank you Al. It is interesting though that the first sales number is still apparent. Thank you for responding to my Post - more than appreciated. Bruce (150) 1 March 2016 #808

Perhaps some persistent casting numbers were too difficult to remove from the mouldings, or there were oversights, or there was not enough time at the time to make changes. 911 and 913 continued to show the old casting numbers on the backs. 30v the electric van went through two paint variations 491/492 without casting alteration. 989 the auto transporter, continued with the marking 984 from its car carrier guise. Simca Cargo trucks in whatever new variation - box back, tipper, wagon, glazier - all retain the same 33 number. My 893 saharien pipe truck still has 36a struck into the trailer as a hangover from its Willeme days.

i would like to add some photo's of my 431 Guy Warrior 4 ton lorry in red and green. It is in played with condition, so are all my Guy Warriors. As Jacques Dujardin mentions on his CD about this version: This is rare because the red body and chassis is that of the 920 Guy Warrior Heinz Ketchup van, it has a Supertoys base as opposed to the Dinky Toys base of the normal 431 and 432. It has windows and the rear bed is riveted to the chassis. My photo's also show my other Guy Warriors. It is clear that this version has the chassis of the Heinz version as can be seen on the underside. It also has the back of the normal 431and the hubs of the 432. The Heinz van was deleted in 1961, so this version is probably from that year made of leftovers.

Very interesting model ..... as I like very much ! ! Variantes, variantes !!! my motivation to increase my collection. It helps to find new stories about the manufacture of our Dinky Toys !! Cheers Richard

The story of these Guy Warrior bases seems to be quite complicated. I have a tan 431 with Dinky Supertoys on the base. However, the casting isnt identical to the 920 one which was used on the red version. Firstly, this one has no windows, and secondly the Dinky Supertoys lettering is slightly larger! I dont have the red version to compare, but the photo below alongside a Snowplough shows the difference (and also compare to the red/green example shown earlier in this thread). Im sorry my photos arent great, but my phone doesnt take very good pictures (in my hands at least!). images/sites/default/files/forum-images/Warrior-Supertoy-Bases_1.jpg[/img] type='image/jpeg; length=107552]Warrior-Supertoy-Bases.jpg The underside of the cab has no window spigot, and there is a 0 cast there. My 432 (with Dinky Toys base) has a 1 cast there. images/sites/default/files/forum-images/Warrior-Cab-Tan.jpg[/img] type='image/jpeg; length=40540]Warrior-Cab-Tan.jpg images/sites/default/files/forum-images/Warrior-Cab-Green.jpg[/img] type='image/jpeg; length=52716]Warrior-Cab-Green.jpg Looking at my 432 Guy Warriors, I noticed that the version without windows (top of the photo) has the words Dinky Toys cast slightly larger than on the one with windows. The difference isnt great, but it is clearly noticeable if you look closely. images/sites/default/files/forum-images/Warrior-Dinky-Toy-Bases_2.jpg[/img] type='image/jpeg; length=120987]Warrior-Dinky-Toy-Bases.jpg Late models dont have the little pip in the centre of the tinplate base. What was the purpose of this pip, and why was it later removed?

Hi fred, Great observations. I can not answer your question about the pip.I took a look at the inside of the cabs of my tan and green version without windows. My green version has a 0 and my tan version a 1 !

Hello Fred, The marking 0 and 1 on the cab's ceiling means that there were two dies used at the same time for this cab / chassis. This is not surprising as this casting has been used for four different models over a production period of seven years. This is not a single case, other models are known to have been made with two different moulds, for example the 25 series chassis, the Guy Vixens, the Bedford TK trucks, the French Dinky Simca Cargo ref. 33 and several others. As the window glazing was added in January 1960 two years after this model was issued, all the models made before this date did not have the window spigot on the cab's ceiling. A little advice for better pictures, use natural light, never use the flash except for the military models, use a contrasting back ground.The meaning of the bump or on some models depression on the base plate is not known (yet) this has been discussed some where else on this forum but without an explanation. This bump may have been used to position the plates accurately in the embossing presses. Many Dinky Toys have one, two and even three (see the fire engine ref. 250) such bumps. Here is the list of Dinky Toys and Supertoys with such a depression : 101Sunbeam Alpine 1957 - 60 102M.G. Midget (2 depressions) 1957 - 60 104Aston DB3S 1957 - 60 107Sunbeam Alpine 1955 - 59 108MG TF Midget (2 depressions)1955 - 59 109Austin Healey 100 (2 depressions) 1955 - 59 110Aston DB3S 1956 - 59 110Aston Martin DB 51956 - 59 115Plymouth Furry sport (2 depressions) 1965 - 69 129M.G. Midget (2 depressions)1955 - 56 131Cadillac Eldorado (2 depressions) 1956 - 63 133Cunningham racer (2 depressions) 1955 - 60 154Hillman Minx 1951 - 58 157Jaguar XK 120 1954 - 62 160Austin A30 1958 - 62 163Bristol 450 (2 depressions) 1956 - 60 164Vauxhall Cresta (2 depressions) 1957 - 60 167AC Aceca Coupe 1958 - 63 168Singer Gazelle 1959 - 63 181VW 12001956 - 69 182Porsche 356 A 1958 - 65 183Fiat 600 (2 depressions)1958 - 60 235H.W.M. 1959 - 60 237Mercedes Benz racing car.1957 - 68 250Streamlined fire engine (3 depressions)1954 - 62 343Farm produce wagon (2) depressions 1950 - 54 344Estate car 1954 - 61 413Austin covered wagon 1950 - 60 414Rear tipping wagon (Dodge Kew) (2 depressions) 1950 - 54 417Leyland Comet lorry 1949 - 54 418Comet wagon with hinged tailboard 1954 - 59 419Leyland Comet cement wagon 1953 - 59 420Forward control lorry 1948 - 61 431Guy 'Warrior' 4-ton lorry 1958 - 64 432Guy 'Warrior' flat truck1958 - 64 621Three ton army wagon 1954 - 63 622Foden 10 ton army truck 1954 - 64 625Austin military covered wagon1951 - 54 626Military ambulance 1956 - 65 643Army water tanker 1958 - 64 661Scammel recovery tractor (2 depressions) 1957 - 65 918Guy van 'Ever Ready'. 1955 - 58 919Guy van 'Golden Shred' 1957 - 58 920Guy 'Warrior' van Heinz.1960 - 61 930Bedford Pallet Jekta van 1960 - 64 934Leyland Octopus wagon (2 depressions)1956 - 64 935Leyland Octopus flat truck chains (2 depressions) 1964 - 66 943Leyland Octopus tanker 'Esso' 1958 - 64 961Blaw Knox bulldozer1949 - 64 963Blaw Knox heavy tractor 1948 - 59 972Coles 20 ton lorry mounted crane. 1955 - 69