514 Guy Van 'Lyons' (195152)

Browsing in some older Model Collector volumes, I found the picture below in the February 1994 issue (page 50). I may have seen this particular example in some earlier volume already (preceding an auction?), but Im not certain about that. The b/w picture is obviously from the old days, when the use of colour was an exception rather than customary in Model Collector and many other magazines. The picture, as shown above, was used as an illustration accompanying a rather all-day question about this no. 514 Guy Lyons Swiss Rolls model, but nothing is mentioned about the utmost remarkable characteristic, the hubs, which are grooved instead of the regular early ridged Dinky Toys hubs, see picture below. In the mean time we know that the same early Slumberland van is found with grooved hubs very incidentally, but this Lyons one was thought to be available only with the early hubs, and this late version isnt recorded anywhere else. It would mean that this van was available for a longer period than presumed before. Or: is it just a replica, finished with the wrong hubs?Can anyone shed a light on this?Kind regards, Jan Werner

If you compare & contrast the decals / silver trim the one below looks totally different to the one above. I would be inclined to say that the one in the Model Collector is a restored model rather than the real thing. Kind regards, Stfan

Stfan--Here is a good, recent closeup taken of my original Lyons, so you can clearly see the colors of the transfers and lettering. One of my favorite Guy vans.......... Terry

Hello Terry That is a very nice original example, thanks for sharing. After a bit more careful research I am quite certain that the decals shown on the black & white toy are the reproductions that were available in the UK via Steve Flowers in the 80s & 90s. If you look carefully you can clearly see that they have subtle differences which identify them as being a copy, for example look at the size of the door logo & the size of the full stops in 'CADBY HALL . LONDON. W.14.'. Not mentioning the variations in font sizes which do not correlate with any original one I have seen photographed. Also (as mentioned in my previous post) the silver trim on the front headlights passes outside the central lens, I have never seen any original Guy like that. Kind regards, Stfan

I am also of the opinion it is a repaint. I have just gone through the previous auctions at Vectis and since 1999 they have sold 90 of the 514 Guy Lyons vans and every single one has had blue ridged wheel hubs. Dave

Hello Dave, I am new to this forum so dont wish to sound confrontational. I see that you are in agreement that it's a repainted toy. But I must respectfully disagree with the fact that Vectis not having one as being an acid test for this type of variation, how many times has an undiscovered variation appeared for sale that hasnt appeared at Vectis or any reference book list. Not such an extreme example would be the 282 Duple Roadmaster in export green / cream with green hubs & packaged in a non standard green spotted bright yellow box. I found one in the mid 00s in the USA & till this day I have not seen another (See DTCA 2008 Vol 6 Ed 3 PG2). I think that the important observation here would be the inconsistency in the decals + trim comparing to known authentic examples. This to me is waving the red flag. Kind regards, Stfan

I understand totally what you are saying Stfan. I was adding some weight to the argument and over the years most things Dinky have at some time passed through Vectis. The major exception must be the Austin Omnisport van and another one of those has recently surfaced and was auctioned today (6th Nov 2013) I will try to get the result of that as soon as possible. Vectis is a useful yardstick of availability. Keep the arguments coming Stfan that's what makes forums healthy Dave

Hello Dave, thanks for taking my post in the spirit that it was written, I am not one of those that blindly points out fake or real without at least some supporting well thought out response backed up by facts. I am also rather curious to know what the Omnisport van went for, I never understood what the fuss was about regarding these. Stfan

Thanks for uncovering the fake, Stfan! I hadn't noticed, although I should have, of course. I really could not explain these grooved hubs, but now this mystery is solved. Apparently it took almost 4 years for someone to answer my question. So many questions I put on this forum in all these years keep pending ... Best regards, Jan

Bit of a result really, another Dinky off my wants list without a penny spent. :laugh: Chris Warr.

It appears that in spite of the above conversation, no one has posted extensively about the Guy Lyons Van, which is a pity, as I think it is somewhat 'lost' between the original and striking 'Slumberland' van and the later and famously expensive 'Weetabix' van. The dates it was made seem to differ a bit depending on what you read or believe, but for myself, I am saying introduced in 1951 and made only through sometime in 1952. All versions I have seen have the original ridged style wheels and also the straight, not formed, rear handles. Please correct me on this if anyone knows otherwise. Due to its limited production life, these are now very difficult to find in any condition, and many are quite battle scarred and in only fair to poor shape. To me, that is a shame, as I think it is one of the most attractive commercial vans that Dinky ever made; it is painted a lustrous shade of dark blue, with decals that rival the 'Slumberland' van for their intricate design and amazingly well done execution. The overall effect is a very handsome model that I really enjoy having. I bought mine many years ago, after deciding that my collection was sadly lacking in many areas, so I made an effort to acquire all of the Guy Vans. Mine is certainly not mint, but I would have to say it is still 'excellent', with a few small scratches here and there, and fortunately, it also came with an excellent box, worth a considerable sum on its own. Best regards, Terry

Terry Now the above is what I call an excellent model and box! Top marks, and the slight blemishes are insignificant. I have always liked the Lyons Van and I think it has been very much under-rated in recent years. I notice though the model did not make an appearance in those excellent images you sent of model and quality inspection stamp. Is this correct? Hopefully you missed seeing the stamp as it will in all probability be on the blue exterior of the lower half of the box. I hope it is still visible! Kind regards Bruce (150)20160413/888/1244