185 Alfa Romeo 1900 'super sprint'

The red I received this morning was very happy to meet its yellow sister ! and to have a parade with the fench cousins Richard

Richard A fine 'gaggle' of Alfa Romeo 1900 Super Sprints! It looks as if you are still 'on the hunt' for the red version with concave hubs! Not many of these have been sold in recent years, at least through Vectis, only five since 1999 with 12 blue examples boxed and unboxed during the same period so the red must be harder to find As can be seen below, my collection of Alfas is limited to the two versions from Liverpool and just the one 527/24j from France. I am also including the differences with their base plates. One thing is surprising is the unusual short production run for the British model of three years, with the French model being produced for four years, although the Alfa Romeo 1900 Super Sprint came out in a period when longevity in production became the exception rather than the norm. With both factories sharing the mould/die, production costs would no doubt have been shared and a slightly longer production period could have resulted in a greater profit in the long-term. One thing is interesting though - the difference in the location of the inverted commas with the British and French models on the packaging. Thank you for creating this Topic, Richard. I wonder if there are any variations out there? Kind regards Bruce (150) 2016/09/13/975/1433

A nice group! - But why did the French factory bases state 'MADE IN FRANCE' rather than 'FABRIQUE EN FRANCE'? I always wondered about that!

Apparently Meccano France did not always use Fabrique en France, as shown with the following base plate examples The 24Y Studebaker Commander, The 24E Renault Dauphine and the 24B Peugeot 403 as quick examples of the unique 'Made in France'. In fact, I had not even realised this after many years of collecting (mainly those from Liverpool), that Meccano France used the English 'Made in France' when the French wording would have been more appropriate. It is great that you brought this to our attention! Good one! Bruce (150) 20160916/1138/977

An interesting question, I thought that perhaps the French models intended for export to English-speaking countries might have had the 'MADE IN FRANCE' bases, but of course this was not always the case. As with many things associated with Dinky Toys, we may never know the real reason!

Just a guess: around 1955 Dinky Toys made in France started being advertised in other countries too, USA, NL etc (but not in the competing market of Britain and commonwealth countries). I think this is the point in time when the French started aiming not only at their home market but also at markets abroad and adopted an international approach by replacing 'Fab(riqu) en France' by the English 'Made in France' (but occasionally still PAR Meccano) on newly introduced models. The ones that were assembled in France, around 1960, were meant for the French market only and resumed using a French imprint on the base plate: ASSEMBLE EN FRANCE MECCANO PARIS. Kind regards, Jan

Your comment is on target, Jan. From the 1950s, H. Hudson Dobson began importing a variety of French Dinky Toys into the U.S.A., and having the country of origin prefaced by 'made in' in English was (and is) a legal requirement in the States. And of course, the models assembled in France from Liverpool moulds were never intended for export.

That USA legal requirement is a great confirmation of our assumptions, Johnny, thank you! In that case the ca. 1954 catalogue-size leaflet below must testify of that introduction of a batch of French Dinky Toys on the US market. However, apparently they did not change the FABRIQUE EN FRANCE imprint below the Panhard artic and the Autobus Parisien. Possibly because they were in production since 1952 already, so before introduction on the US market. And they did not change that afterwards either because my examples of those cannot be dated earlier than 1954. I cannot check the others because I simply do not have them. Interesting case! Kind regards, Jan Kind regards, Jan

It is rather sad how the United States flexed its economic muscles by insisting that when an item in quantity is imported into that country containing an inscription of its country of manufacture that such has to be written/inscribed in English. To my colonial mind, that smacks of arrogance! I find this requirement both bizarre and unbelievable. It is interesting that the 24X Ford Vedette that was first released in 1954 and was one of the early imports into the United States has Fabrique en France on its base plate, but its box carried neither inscription Made in France or Imprim En France, perhaps as a snub to the American lawmakers! Or at least these details are included in Ramsays British Diecast Model Toys Catalogue 15th Edition! Perhaps box and the base plate was later changed, I do not know. Another model released during the same year was the 25BV Fourgon Postal Van. It is worthy of note that first issues of the 25BV according to Ramsay included the wording 25BV, MARQUE DPOSE only, with no reference to the country of manufacture. Later issue boxes were amended to contain the wording 'MARQUE DPOSE - MADE IN FRANCE, IMPRIM EN FRANCE. (Big brother forcing an issue?!) My example of the 25BV is of the latter as shown below: This model and its box confirms that the US requirement for the use of English for the country of manufacture was relaxed for those models that were already in production at the time when French Dinky Toys commenced being imported into the US in quantity. The box on the other hand has an indirect message with that compliance! The box details were amended with MADE IN FRANCE the only English words for the country of origin but everything else pertaining to the registered trade mark and the printing details were in French. A case of Meccano complying with the country of origin but at the same time making a subtle comment of what they thought of the absurdity of the entire process, and good on them too!! Finally, as a note to the Moderator, it would be beneficial if these Posts dealing with Made in France etc, be copied and placed in a new general Topic dealing with this subject for easy retrieval. Bruce (150) 20160919/978/0138

Ironically, 'Made in France' persisted on French Dinky Toys until the end, but following the efforts of H. Hudson Dobson in the 1950s, and a limited selection imported by distributors A.C. Gilbert in 1963 and 1964, the French products disappeared from the U.S. market. When Lines Brothers took over in 1964, they were not interested in importing French models (they did a bad enough job at getting their pared-down Liverpool range into American shops), and subsequent distributors Covell Management and then AVA did not import French Dinky Toys either.French Dinky Toys became available in the U.S. only via several specialist shops (for example, Memorable Things in Maryland, and Marque Products in California) that obtained limited quantities directly from the factory. I'll never forget contacting Memorable Things in the early 1970s, after having read their small advertisement in the back of Model Railroader magazine, and receiving from them a French Dinky catalogue full of wonders I'd been completely unaware of!

At least you were fortunate to have had those specialist shops in the United States. Down here in the Antipodes we never saw any French Dinky Toys - in fact, until I resumed my interest in Dinky Toys 23 years ago on reaching my second childhood (according to my family) I never even knew that Meccano had a separate factory in France making all sorts of Meccano stuff, trains, Dinky Toys, Meccano sets. We had several stores selling Dinky Toys where I grew up, a small city called Armidale in northern New South Wales in Australia, and one of these only brought in stock for Christmas. I was a member of the EAGLE Club and had a subscription to EAGLE comic and even the advertisements in these only dealt with the products of Binns Road. So too Meccano Magazine which I received on a regular basis thanks to my father, although he ceased buying these in about 1960. Australia in the 1950s and 60s was very 'British' - Women's Weekly', 'John Bull' and other magazines from the UK, our love of the Royal Family especially our new Queen, our National Anthem was 'God Save the Queen' the same as the UK which was played at the start of every cinema (picture theatre) session and we all stood up for it too, our currency was pounds, shillings and pence, we drove on the correct side of the road (now that will put the cat amongst the pigeons!!) and drove mainly British cars some of which were assembled in Australia, in fact, one could almost say that we were more British than the British themselves! (This will put the rest of the cats among those pigeons!!) How things have changed - and in most cases, not for the better. I am very glad I grew up in that era when we did not have to worry about unattended backpacks, exploding rubbish bins, fanatics of all persuasions, disappearing manufacturers . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . Bruce (150) 20160924/987/1230

Bruce, what a wonderful contribution on your part! I think it would be a great thing to have a thread here (assuming there isn't already one) where all of us could talk about what started us collecting Dinky Toys in the first place, where we purchased them, and so on. I think a social history would be invaluable, especially as we are not going to last forever (not to be morbid, but I am 60, no spring chicken). I have mentioned in other threads how horrible Dinky Toys distribution was in the United States after the demise of H. Hudson Dobson in 1961. It has seemed as though it was a struggle to find them all my life. And since I have a romantic nature, that made them more desirable, I believe, than Corgi or Matchbox Toys (both of which always had excellent distribution in the States -- and indeed, I had plenty of Matchboxes and a few Corgis, but they were never the cherished ones). And of course it seems that for many who lived through the 1950s in the UK, whilst they could readily (?) find Dinky Toys in the shops, the combination of the postwar export drive and lower incomes meant that the toys were elusive objects of desire.