934/943/944 Leyland Octopus (2)

That's interesting, Jan. If the base was changed for the Shell BP version, is there any reason for the slots at the back of the cab to be left open on any of the Shell BP tankers? Were any wagons or chain lorries made with this base? The second question is, why were the two rear tank slots filled in but not the other four?

Hi Fred, this photo is taken from a better angle. Now you see that even three slots have disappeared! Both for the Foden (in late 1948, when the tanker was introduced) and for the Leyland these slots were applied, for the fixing of the tin tank with its six lugs only. They had no meaning for the other loading platforms, and not for the plastic tank, which had no lugs but had to be fixed by two screws. In my opinion they have not deliberately been filled on this late Leyland model, but - because of their uselessness - they have just been ignored and not maintained, so that flash could easily make them disappear in the course of time. One would expect that early Shell-BP tankers show the nine holes and that gradually the later examples showed more and more holes filled by flash (or may be the pins of the die, causing these holes to be free, just broke off and were not repaired or replaced). Kind regards, Jan

This was my 944 after I cleaned it. It had been in the house of a very heavy smoker and literally was brown. As the tank is retained by two screws this was a straightforward job. I stripped and carefully washed it and it was fine, the labels need to be kept dry as they are paper. Dave

As you can see, Dave, all stickers of your copy have been positioned above the dividing of the two halves, which enables a riskless demontation. Mine have been pasted over this seam ('correctly' in my opinion), which would make such an action rather tricky for the survival of the stickers! I see both examples showing either the first or the latter position. Regards, Jan

You are absolutely right here Jan. Due to the vehicle need a very serious, and thorough, clean if the stickers had been over the seam I would not have bought it. Dave

Good info on the rear cab slots Fred, never noticed that before. My Corn Products Tanker has no chassis slots at all, but still retains the rear cab slots.....

Chris Warr.

That is very intesting to know, Chris! This lacking of the previous slots adds to the evidence that the Corn Products tanker is a very late casting version of the Shell-BP tanker and not a design of 1963! As Jim Hurley puts forward in his very interesting article (DTCA Journal of October 2012, page 11), it must have been a much later creation, of about 1973. In my opinion the confusion has risen because of the dating of the drawing of this model, which is 5-3-1963. However, this is no doubt the date of the original Shell-BP drawing, the basis, a copy of which was used for making a new drawing for the Corn Products tanker, without changing the original date. It was not important, being no official, regular Dinky Toy after all. Regards, Jan

Hi Jan, Where does that put it with regard to Fred's white chassis tanker with the filled in rear of cab slots though? Presuming that the slots were filled in as a final variation that makes Fred's white chassis Shell BP newer than my Corn Products? Here's a full view of the underside, I would really love to tie down once and for all when this was made.

Chris Warr.

You bet it was about 1973, just read Jim's article and add the 'slot evidence' to that. As the regular tanker was discontinued as late as 1970, it is well understandable that the last batch of these was without the slots too. This does not contradict that the Corn Products promotional was made a few years later. Still, old stock of cab/chassis castings may have mixed, and the tank slots may have shown flash, more or less, every now and then. More often at the end of the production than in the beginning. Regards, Jan

Perhaps I was a little bit too quick in my reply. Indeed I did not take into account the slots behind the cab. Although old stock might have been used, this cannot exclude that indeed the regular tanker lasted longer than the moment of production of the Corn Products tanker, so possibly not too long before 1970. Jim's example of the Corn Products tanker was donated about 1973, not necessarily produced around that year. Still, the closed slots underneath keep supporting the assumption that the Corn Products tanker was made far later than 1963. Kind regards, Jan

Hi Gents, I find this topic really fascinating, so I had a look at some of the other Octopi, and realised something I had never noticed before, there are two different types of plastic hubs, the one with the cast in vents around the rim, and the one without.......

Correctly I presume, the Grey chassis Shell BP has these hubs fitted to the front wheels only. Seems to have been pretty random though, as the red hubs chain lorry has a single solitary vented hub fitted to the nearside rear, all the others are none vented.......

Anyway, more to the point, by the time of the grey hubs chain lorry the vented hubs have gone completely, the red hubs chain lorry shows chassis slots......

The grey hubs chain lorry does not.......

So the only other model I have that has the combination of open cab rear slots, none vented hubs, and no chassis slots is the Corn Products tanker........

Chris Warr.

Wow - there have been a lot of posts here lately - it's great to see the forum so busy! Here's a photo of the bases of my two Ocotpuses - sorry the quality isn't brilliant. The grey chassis has two base slots open, and the rest are filled to a greater or lesser degree, although they are all still visible. The tinplate base is gloss black and the wheels all have vents. On the white chassis there is no trace at all of the slots, and the ejector ring marks are different too. The tinplate base is matt black and the wheels all have no vents. The more I look at these, the more differences I find!