139a and 170 Ford Fordor Sedan (1949-59)

A recent arrival from Somerset in the United Kingdom (see New Arrivals) has been this delightful 139a Ford Fordor Sedan in yellow with yellow hubs displaying very little playwear, just the odd tiny chip here and there. The base plate is faultless and all four tyres are flexible and have not hardened. Also in the same parcel were four other early Dinky Toys that have been hardly played with, if at all, over the years. The Ford does not look any different to the number of other 139a that have passed through our front door, all having the usual very minor chips, except this one is perhaps unique within the collecting world of Dinky Toys! What is it that sets this model apart from all the rest? It is the roof, and what I had first thought was some hairs caught up in a temporary paint repair until I put on my glasses! It still has, after all these years, its original price of 2/6, (two shillings and sixpence), written in pencil on the roof! I wonder why the original owner did not rub the price out? We all have seen countless pencil and ballpoint written prices on innumerable boxes, but this is the first time I have seen an original price still visible on the paintwork of a model. Has anyone else encountered something similar? The price of 2/6 was applicable from August to December 1949.From December 1949 to February 1950 I have not found a price list or catalogue covering this period, but from March 1950 to June 1950 the price was still 2/6 so one can assume that 2/6 was the price from August 1949 through to June 1950. The next price change I have is dated February 1952 when the price had increased to 3/1. Usually on receiving a new model, I carefully wash it in warm, soapy water to remove any grime and accumulation of dust and fluff, and then air-dry it as quickly as possible but what should I do with this price? I feel it should remain as an important part of this models history. Finally, a similar, although in slightly better condition (without the price!) sold recently at auction for 340.00. My Ford on the other hand together with two others came in at 160.00 plus premium, or about 56.00 for each model. Quite a difference a few isolated tiny chips make. Larger images of the price are below. Bruce H 20170228/1056

Hi Bruce I find it personally always valuable when a price is placed on a box. You can reconstruct the period of sale with price lists or catalogi. Your model 139a changed after 2/6, in February / March 1951 in 2/8, see the back of the Meccano pricelist 16/251/33. By the way: did you receive my personal message about my questions in the 521 Bedford Artic topic? Kind Regards, Jan Oldenhuis (703)

Hi Bruce, I would tend towards removing defacing and harmful grafitti like this, even though it may tell something about this example's history. In fact, this little trace only testifies that anything could happen to a Dinky Toy, even writing on it. Still, it may be important to record this fact, the original price, by keeping the photographs, a written record of this in your administration, or even - if you do not want this fact to be separated from the object - paste a little sticker below with this information -- just my opinion. This made me think of an example of a manufacturer even firmly casting in the price of the model, like cut in stone! This must be a product of a very stable inflation-less economy. Indeed, the Soviet Union! The example below makes part of a tiny little soviet army models collection of mine, translated it is called 'War Technology' series, made in the USSR in the 1970s-1980s, Kind regards, Jan

Hello Jan O Many thanks for taking the time to provide a response to my post. You are absolutely spot-on about prices and how these can provide a time frame when a model was made and sold. Many thanks for posting your copy of the 16/251/33 Meccano price list which is one of many I do not have in my collection. Together with the information you provided, we now know my 139a Ford Fordor Sedan was priced at 2/6 from August 1949 to at least October 1950. By February 1951 the price had increased to 2/8, and was never priced at 2/6 again. So my Ford is indeed of a very early manufacture, and we only know this with the price written on it that the thoughtful original owner did not remove! How considerate! Now to Jans thoughtful response! I do respect your comments and as collectors we all look at our hobby in a different light. It would be an uninteresting existence if we all collected the same and held the same ideals. I look at this price written on the Ford in the same way as a price written on a box it forms part of its history and is irrefutable. My ownership of the model is temporary I cannot keep it forever, as this car will outlive all of us! So in effect, I am simply its current custodian and I do not think it gives me the right to remove the price in the same way I have many boxes with pencilled prices on them and I certainly would not remove those! I have just bought from eBay UK a boxed model that carries on one end an Australian price. This is a worthy addition to my collection, simply due to the model having been originally sold in Australia. Finally I see that Mike has included an excerpt of my original Post on my Ford in the latest copy of The Journal. I would be most interested to read if others write into the editor with their views! Perhaps the majority may convince me to change my views! Kind regards Bruce H. (150) 20172005/1104/0357

Bruce-I totally agree with your argument. I have also read your article in the DTCA journal and would like to respond to this place. I would also appreciate it if there is an indication on the box or the like about price, date or something personal. It is or can be a valuable explanation of the history of the model. So I do not remove this either. My DT 264 box comes directly from the USA and has a Gimbels price tag. I went searching on the internet and found out to be a big store in the USA (See picture). it's like the Bijenkorf in the Netherlands. (Picture of Amsterdam). Gimbel Brothers (Gimbels) was an American department store corporation from 1887 until 1987. I am very happy with this science and has a certain added value for me. I know, at least, that he has been sold in the USA. I also searched for the price 1.10, but the USA catalogues give a different price. Until 1963 1.85 and from 1964 1.69. See pictures. I can not explain that. Greetings to all. 20-5-2017 Jan Oldenhuis

To complete this topic, I post here under two photos of my Ford Sedan. On the second one, you will see the two different baseplates with big and small letters and the different lengths of the bottom front body parts at each ends of the front axel . Friendly yours Richard

Hello Richard Nice collection of 139a/170 Ford Fordor Sedans. Here are mine without including the boxes for those that are boxed. Larger images are at the bottom of this Post. As you can see, I still have to obtain the all-green version as well as the red and cream in lowline. Plus there is the all red as well as the tan, both with the extended front axle supports , so a total of four more models to really complete the set! I am in the process of writing a detailed Post on the 139a/170, as I have a lot more information to share. Cheers Bruce H. (150) 20172405/1107/1831

Hello Bruce. Thanks for your nice words and for your interesting photos and comments on the still missing items ! Like that, I know what I am going to look for ! Cheers Richard

Greetings Richard Nice to see you online again! Actually I meant to mention in my last Post that the pink and blue lowline Ford is actually not pink, but a sort of beige. At first I thought it was a faded pink, but the colour underneath is the same. One can readily see the difference in both colours with the picture below. 1024 889 As mentioned above, the colour beige extends to the base area of the model: This difference could be explained with the paint process; the previous colour used had not been completely, or correctly flushed before applying the true salmon pink colour. I have seen another Ford Fordor with the beige colour but neglected to save a copy of the photograph. I have also encountered this previously that also involved a salmon pink model, as shown with the two images below of two 173 Nash Ramblers. Actually, I quite like the first accidental colour scheme, as it does remove itself from being a somewhat feminine colour, and with these toys being aimed at boys, some of the choices Meccano made are unusual to say the least. Then when one looks at some of the members of the original Dinky Toys Club who won a competition, it is easy to appreciate that Meccano must have really did their homework thoroughly. There were at least two young girls who were included in the list of winners in the Club's first competition. Some of those whose names were limited to first and second initials may very well have also been female. The second competition again had at least two young girls as winner, with the last competition there were four young lady winners. I am left with a dilemma whether I have to obtain a real salmon pink lowline colour scheme to finally complete the collection for the Ford Fordor or consider the beige example as salmon pink!! Kind regards Bruce H. (150) 20172405/1107/2230

A humble contribution of mine, after the wealth of information supplied already by the posters above (and being the owner of merely one boxed no. 170 Ford Fordor Sedan (+ one Army Staff Car, no. 139am / 170m/675)). This thread made me realize that I did not have decent photos of my example yet, so I made some this afternoon. Producing the box too, I became aware of the information on one end flap, being a sticker marked: D2 - WU . PC . 3/6 So this is food for you Bruce, I presume the price will unveil the year(s) of availability of this example, and perhaps for others to possibly recognize the supplier involved. Also a reminder of the article 'Dinky's American dream', by Nigel Mynheer, who '... looks at Dinky's glamorous 50's US cars'. In Model Collector of October 2001 (Vol. 15 no. 10) p. 31-35. This is an article inspired by and making use of the Remy-Meeus collection, then being auctioned, discussing the Ford Fordor, Plymouth Estate Car and the Hudson Commodore. Kind regards, Jan

Bruce---A most lovely collection of Ford's, with such a mix of colors. I have always preferred the solid colors, but by the time I bought mine new, in 1958, the two-tones were all that were available. And Jan, I really like that tan color.....looks so nice on that model! Best regards, Terry

Hello Jan Many thanks for your contribution. Your 170 in tan is quite superb - as well as its box. The price though has me stumped, as I cannot find a UK or Australian price that matches it. Perhaps the model and box came from South Africa, or perhaps some other British Commonwealth country.The price in Australia for a 170 ranged from 4/6 up to 5/5, down to 3/- then up to 5/- until its demise. It could have come from Australia as the price in March 1956 was 3/-, so perhaps the retailer added an extra 6 pence to the cost for 'administration purposes'! As far as I am aware, Meccano was unable to ensue Australian retailers followed an established price range for all its models, and I am certain the agent, E G Page and Son was unable to do so due to the size of the country. The initials on the price label mean nothing to me! By the way Jan, does the inside of either major end-flap contain a rubber stamp? My box has nothing inside it, and on the exterior it has a price of 85 something-or-other which could possibly be a US price of 85 cents. With the long front axle supports, your 139am is one of the early issues, although it appears that these supports remained thus until the first issues of the 675. Apparently the change occurred at the same time as the change with the base plate. Terry Thank you too for your kind words. I actually preferred the all tan colour scheme too, although my Ford was all-red with maroon hubs. As I received mine prior to 1957 (came from my neighbour although I am uncertain what I swapped for it!) but this car does not follow the logical sequence of the extended front axle supports, as this one is the shortened version and with 'Ford Sedan' cast into the interior of the roof. My tan version, see photo above, is a 170, has the extended front axle supports and lacks the wording 'Ford Sedan' in the interior of the roof, all of which gets me more and more confused! The all-yellow version has the extended front axle supports and nothing cast in the interior of the roof - see below. Now this is where it gets confusing, as I always assumed the above observations were those applicable to the very first issues of the 139a. Then I turn my attention to my tan version, remembering that it came in a 170 box. Firstly the base: As one can see, it has the extended front axle supports, and, the roof interior is blank, no 'Ford Sedan' cast in, but it came in a 170 box! Here is my red with maroon hubs, which has the shortened front axle supports, as well as it has 'Ford Sedan' cast into the interior roof The above makes this model in the era prior to the gaudy two-tone colour schemes, although some reference works has the red with maroon wheel hubs as a 139a. So is it possible there are red with maroon wheel hubs 'out there' that have a blank interior ceiling? Who says collecting Dinky Toys is simple as it definietly looks as if my collection of Fords has to increase substantially! Kind regards Bruce H. (150) 20172505/1108/2021